9/11

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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:18 am

Ha! Ha! and speaking of weirdness in manifested reality. I'm replying to you from 30,000 ft high in an airplane. The Tolle forum even rules the skies!
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:19 am

Ha! Ha! and speaking of weirdness in manifested reality. I'm replying to you from 30,000 ft high in an airplane. The Tolle forum even rules the skies!
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:38 am

There is no airplane.
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:40 am

That must explain the turbulence that I am currently experiencing :D.
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:44 am

:lol:
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:25 pm

The past, the present and the airplane are all very real in the relative world...the world in which there is a white and a black and they are not the same. Unity Consciousness, Self-realization, awakening, etc. are a shift in awareness to recognition of the Absolute, and the discovery that the sacredness, the suchness of the Absolute is present in all manifestations in the relative world. Declaring that the relative world is false is helpful only if one is speaking to unconscious people, announcing that there is another, vastly more complete picture. Most of Nisargadatta, Tolle and Ramana's writings and conversations are addressed to unconscious people.

After awakening, in my experience (and others') there is a period of disorientation because the essential dissolution of personal identity (and the merging/discovery of identity with All That Is) is a big, and usually unfamiliar step. But the good 'ol mind hangs around to process and study the relative world, and, partly because of its restricted (but very powerful) function there, the mind serves to validate the relative world. (Of course, when we feel that validation, we have to consider the source, as opposed to the Source!) The heart also validates the relative world...I love this person, that ice cream, this music more than "that person, that ice cream"...etc. I do think waking up allows us to feel more beauty, wonder and peace in all people and things, though, and the big shift expands the capacity of the mind to function in its primary medium, the relative world.

Just because we can know that Being contains and supersedes anything in the relative world, doesn't mean there is not joy in stepping back one tiny step into the infinite variety of personalities, living things, places and glorious French food....

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:24 am

> Unity Consciousness, Self-realization, awakening, etc. are a shift in awareness to recognition of the Absolute, and the discovery that the sacredness, the suchness of the Absolute is present in all manifestations in the relative world.

What he said.
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:28 am

So ... IS the past real?

I'd say only in so far as thought is real.

Same goes for the future and the present.

Sans thought the rules of engagement with the universe change quite dramatically, a whole different ballgame it is it is.
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:25 pm

The discovery of quantum mechanics, entanglement, the uncertainty principle, and all that weird stuff (like the 95% of the universe that is dark energy and dark matter) is shattering. However, when the waveform collapses, we are suddenly back in Newton's world. And we have our bodies and minds to navigate with. And it is that localized, limited vision and our "normal" mental tools we use there. The shock of a hard slap of the Infinite creates a sting, and a permanent atmosphere that forever casts the relative world in bold relief. But we can still burn our fingers on the hot stove. It is a both-and paradox. And many of the quantum physicists in the 20th century, after their conviction about the spooky quantum realities had firmed, began to rhapsodize about more spiritual perspectives, and still do -- look at the abstracts for the SAND conference in October (sceinceandnonduality.org) Or just go there....I cannot, this year.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:12 am

Realizing the absolute, the awareness we are, as the Self , doesn't get rid of the association of the apparantly real (jiva, person). Therefore, there will always be pain and pleasure, it can't be avoided. However, suffering is not necessary when you realize you are not the person, but the Self. You are only associated with the person, the person is an object known to you.

I have been challenged as of late with this... I went to Mexico and when I came home was diagnosed with Melasma. Hyperpigmentation that consumed 70% of my face. I was stared at, as I was "different" now then most people. I did get camiflouge make up to stop the stares and was put on lightening creams to help the melasma. All this "almost" made me suffer, as I lost my focus for a week or so...but this person is not who I am. So, the pain is what it is, but I won't suffer as I am witnessing it, therefore I can not be..it.

Regardless what someone's face looks like, it is not who they are, you are awareness, not the person.
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Re: 9/11

Postby Sighclone » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:54 am

dij - Sorry about the melasma - I understand that it passes. It reminds me of a friend, a fine retired physician who was successful and kind. But very wrapped up in "MD" ("me, doctor") as his identity. He is dying slowly of sepsis, cancer, a failing transplanted liver and other miseries. I do not think he has Self-realized, but I need to talk with him. I know he is in pain, I wonder if he is suffering...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: 9/11

Postby runstrails » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:01 pm

Hi Dij,
Sorry to hear about the melasma. It's good to see that self-realization is serving your jiva well. Even when you lose focus you are never not the self :D. You might find that stressful times actually speed up the cognitive shift of the identity (to awareness) as it helps the jiva cope better. All the very best, my friend.
rt

Hi Andy,
Great to see you. Sorry to hear about your friend. Have you found much luck in speaking to people about self-realization? I tried to have a conversation with a professor of Vedanta and another renowned book author on the subject at a book signing and found that we were talking in distracted circles :roll:. Self-realization (even among interested people) does not lend itself to soundbites and so does not make for good cocktail party conversation. But I expect you will have a much more introspective and meaningful conversation with your friend.
rt
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:24 pm

Hi guys,

As far as the melasma passing....that's the case usually for women who get it because of pregnancy or use of birth control pills and sun exposure, when they have the baby or stop birth control pills it can go away. However, for folks my age it's usually a chronic condition I'm told. We will see I guess, it's lighter from the creams (it's been several weeks) and makeup covers it's pretty well. So, it is what it is....

Hope your friend isn't suffering Andy! It's rough when your that sick.

Thanks for your comment RT, hope you've been well.

Take it easy,

Di
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Re: 9/11

Postby rachMiel » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:17 pm

Could be a blessing in disguise Dij ... a visceral reminder that you are not ultimately your face, or body, or appearance, or personality, or pretty much anything else. It's easier to fall into psychological dependency (identification) with things we find attractive, pretty, smooth and sleek and "perfect" looking.
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Re: 9/11

Postby dijmart » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:56 am

Hi RM,
Yes, I actually thought of that...it helped. I thought of all the people who have birth marks on their face or have been burned and how their condition will not get better or lighten as mine has and how...I'm not this face anyways! Even though I know this, it's been tough to deal with, I will admit.
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