Birthright

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Re: Birthright

Postby Rob X » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:05 pm

runstrails wrote:We always know this, as it's who we are--but as you say it get corrupted as we grow older. In Vedanta speak, it would be that your mind was clear enough to see the reflection of the self in it. The difference being, even though you experienced the self as a child you did not have the intellectual capacity to understand what was going on. At a later age (after frontal cortex is adequately developed), you start to understand what is happening: Simply, that we are 'this fundamental reality'.


Yes, the felt-sense/knowing is there from early on but the small child cannot reflect on it or articulate it. The irony is that by the time it has the tools for that; language, analysis, communication skills etc., the process of delusion is underway.
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Re: Birthright

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:01 pm

Rob X wrote:The irony is that by the time it has the tools for that; language, analysis, communication skills etc., the process of delusion is underway.

Consider however, that the delusion you refer to is just one aspect in the exploration of this human experience. I suggest that this delusional component of experience is vital to the understanding of this reality and the evolution of consciousness that comes with it. It seems there was a clear intention to explore life from that amazingly varied perspective at the outset. After all, here we all are.

WW
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Re: Birthright

Postby rachMiel » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:12 am

runstrails wrote:The difference being, even though you experienced the self as a child you did not have the intellectual capacity to understand what was going on. At a later age (after frontal cortex is adequately developed), you start to understand what is happening: Simply, that we are 'this fundamental reality'.

Thanks for the neuro-expertise, rt. :-) This is part of what I'm getting at with the idea that pre-delusion home and post-delusion home might be qualitatively different.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Birthright

Postby rachMiel » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:33 am

Rob X wrote:Oh, Jane got off the island ten years ago - she married a bum, took to the bottle and now has a miserable existence working at Walmart in Pittsford.

MY Pittsford?! OMG ... I think I know her! Is she the alcoholic Walmart Jane with a tattoo of Nisargadatta on her forehead?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Birthright

Postby Rob X » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:03 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Rob X wrote:Oh, Jane got off the island ten years ago - she married a bum, took to the bottle and now has a miserable existence working at Walmart in Pittsford.

MY Pittsford?! OMG ... I think I know her! Is she the alcoholic Walmart Jane with a tattoo of Nisargadatta on her forehead?


Man, that's a rubbish tattoo, I always thought it was Michael Jackson. Next time you see her say hello from me (we've got history.)
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Re: Birthright

Postby Rob X » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:24 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Rob X wrote:The irony is that by the time it has the tools for that; language, analysis, communication skills etc., the process of delusion is underway.

Consider however, that the delusion you refer to is just one aspect in the exploration of this human experience. I suggest that this delusional component of experience is vital to the understanding of this reality and the evolution of consciousness that comes with it. It seems there was a clear intention to explore life from that amazingly varied perspective at the outset. After all, here we all are.

WW


Some say that the delusion/unconsciousness/identification is a form of collective mental illness which is the root cause of much greed, division and suffering in the world. Is this 'collective mental illness' a wrong turn or a mistake etc.? From a broader perspective it can't be considered a mistake any more than Neanderthal man or Homo erectus could be considered a mistake.

Yet to the spiritual seeker it's a complete disaster and something to get over. The irony for the seeker is that knowing that "this delusional component of experience is vital to the understanding of this reality and the evolution of consciousness that comes with it" is already a step beyond unconsciousness.

In other words, the moment we can genuinely say 'ah, delusion is part of the journey' we are emerging from delusion.
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Re: Birthright

Postby rachMiel » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:15 pm

Recognizing that the ego is a mirage born of thought and memory doesn't make the ego mirage disappear ... it makes the misunderstanding of ego as a real independent entity disappear.
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