The Seer

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The Seer

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:34 am

For the longest, I use to try to figure out the "Can the seer be seen" quote. So, what do you think? Can that Seer be seen? And if so, by whom? And under what conditions?
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Re: The Seer

Postby maaref » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:04 am

The answer is no. You can only see a reflection of it because the moment you have seen something, it is no longer the seer. In the same way you cannot see your eyes, because if you could, you would no longer be able to see.
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Re: The Seer

Postby dijmart » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:56 pm

So, if the seer is thought of as the person or ego (the voice in the head), then yes that seer can be seen.

However, the true Seer (the real you, awareness) can see the body, mind, ego, sense complex and that Seer (awareness) can not be seen.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:16 am

Any kind of 'seeing' would only be the reflection as maaref said. It is that somewhat 'paradoxical' question that makes you wanna kick someone in the balls, but there really is only the reflection. Every time you 'think' you see it, you can't. You only can know it through feeling and we've all been there.....moments of recognizing ourselves.....or I should say.....ourSelf.
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Re: The Seer

Postby dijmart » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:18 am

In regards to seeing reflected awareness, it is the intellect that can apprehend it's true nature as awareness, when awareness is reflected within a satvic (clear/quiet) mind, the subtle body.
Last edited by dijmart on Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:19 am

Yes, that's the act of 'knowing' that I speak of essentially.
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Re: The Seer

Postby dijmart » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:23 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Yes, that's the act of 'knowing' that I speak of essentially.


I agree!

It's subtle, but even this, is seen by the Seer.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:30 am

Since you asked me recently....THIS is why I no longer post on the forum haha. These conversations make my head spin. I kid I kid of course.

I guess if you want it to take down the rabbit hole till you can't go anywhere, that's where 'enlightenment' in the Vedantic sense might be? Because from what I remember from Vedanta, everything that can be known, is still an aspect of 'maya'.

I see it more so as a felt sense of connection (through peace, and joy and bliss) as the only form of true 'knowing' in my own experience.
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Re: The Seer

Postby dijmart » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:46 am

I don't know what you think I was trying to say? But I was done going down the rabbit hole.

But this was my point-

"everything that can be known, is still an aspect of 'maya'. "

Including one's Self realization.
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Re: The Seer

Postby dijmart » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:59 am

I see it more so as a felt sense of connection (through peace, and joy and bliss) as the only form of true 'knowing' in my own experience.



oh, ok, I get what you mean now, sorry. We can agree to disagree, if necessary, no problem. I guess the only thing I would say would be, if you don't feel peace, joy and bliss in a given moment, would you then no longer be Self realized, in your opinion? I agree peace, joy and bliss can be a side effect of Self realization, but not always and if it's not present it certainly doesn't effect me knowing who I really am, awareness.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:39 am

Well, yes, exactly Di. And I actually DID agree with your post on maya. And of course, as human beings, we're not going to feel joy 24/7 like Phil2 did. But, then again no one was as enlightened as him.

But, seriously, the whole point of this whole thing is that we don't have to get upset WHEN we are upset. Of course we will be upset and angry. But, when you make peace and love that it is there, you realize there is nothing that can truly harm you.

And as far as maya, yes, self realization too is another part of the 'dream'.
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Re: The Seer

Postby maaref » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:45 am

dijmart wrote:
I see it more so as a felt sense of connection (through peace, and joy and bliss) as the only form of true 'knowing' in my own experience.



oh, ok, I get what you mean now, sorry. We can agree to disagree, if necessary, no problem. I guess the only thing I would say would be, if you don't feel peace, joy and bliss in a given moment, would you then no longer be Self realized, in your opinion? I agree peace, joy and bliss can be a side effect of Self realization, but not always and if it's not present it certainly doesn't effect me knowing who I really am, awareness.



You are absolutely right. The problem a lot of people in this path seek is the joy, bliss and other side effects you have mentioned, and when they get too hooked into seeking these pleasures they are deterred from the truth/one reality.

Let whatever appears in the consciousness be without being entangled by it. Then what you do or say comes from a "greater" intelligence which is not egoistic or emotional driven. Your doing in this case would be the doing of consciousness itself. But you should not be entangled by that too. That is why final statements are a bad idea, since it conceptualizes the consciousness making it something it is not.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:52 am

The purpose of mentioning something like joy is that it represents to us when we are more in or out of alignment with our true nature. I feel emotions are often mis-understood. Perhaps it's for another conversation at another time. But, it's not about seeking a state of pleasure, or seeking things to make us happy. But that joy IS our true nature. When we are approaching life from a place of natural curiosity, it is from a place of JOY. When we are approaching life because we are trying to resist something, it is from-what some call-'the ego' or fear. When you are not resisting your thoughts or emotions of sadness or anger, are you not happy? It is that state of unconditional love which is most in line with our true nature. So, that's when you ARE feeling emotions of happiness and joy, it is more of a representation that you are in alignment (connection) with who you truly are.

It's not to me that joy is BETTER than sadness. But, they are simply different vibrational representations on the emotional guidance system and simply pointers as to how connected or not connected we are.

However, this is for an entirely different conversation, so I don't want to segway off here.
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Re: The Seer

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:57 am

And just to add on to that. How do you access that place of joy'? For me......Are you resisting? or are you allowing? Allowing is the entire key to everything.
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Re: The Seer

Postby maaref » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:20 am

Enlightened2B wrote:The purpose of mentioning something like joy is that it represents to us when we are more in or out of alignment with our true nature. I feel emotions are often mis-understood. Perhaps it's for another conversation at another time. But, it's not about seeking a state of pleasure, or seeking things to make us happy. But that joy IS our true nature. When we are approaching life from a place of natural curiosity, it is from a place of JOY. When we are approaching life because we are trying to resist something, it is from-what some call-'the ego' or fear. When you are not resisting your thoughts or emotions of sadness or anger, are you not happy? It is that state of unconditional love which is most in line with our true nature. So, that's when you ARE feeling emotions of happiness and joy, it is more of a representation that you are in alignment (connection) with who you truly are.

It's not to me that joy is BETTER than sadness. But, they are simply different vibrational representations on the emotional guidance system and simply pointers as to how connected or not connected we are.

However, this is for an entirely different conversation, so I don't want to segway off here.


You are right in that joy is the perfume of consciousness, but joy it not our true nature (which is consciousness). Consciousness cannot be truly seen as we have established. It has no shape, image or colour to be seen. Our awareness of it (as soon as its acknowledged/seen) is only the lightest most pure image of it. The characteristic of the consciousness as no-thing allows for all things (creation) to appear within it, including its perfume of joy you described. We are consciousness and in the same time we are the person who is connected to consciousness in our dream state (which gives us our sense of separation/duality, which is an illusion as we are one/both). So, the best we can reach in the dream state is to always be connected to our true nature (consciousness), which differentiates us (the creation) from the consciousness (the creator). (I have made a post that discusses the different levels of creation if you are interested viewtopic.php?f=38&t=13759&p=127176#p127176).

The danger in saying we are joy is that there are many acts which we do that are not enjoyable by any means (such as experiencing a lose of a dear one, or being ill and in pain). In addition, in meditation, your attention should be focused on the emptiness/consciousness as oppose to an image that appears in the consciousness, however beautiful that image may be.
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