Seeking/finding

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums

Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:06 am

The seeking phase has energy behind it, that can be almost exhilarating, in a way, but once your a finder, at least for me, that energy totally exhausted itself out.

There's nothing else to find, it's been found. It's very simple and ordinary its amazing how it was over looked. Almost humorous really and although it's simple, most won't see it in this life, so that leaves one very alone with their understanding of what's real and what's apparently real. No one who knows me personally knows my inner world, knows that I know I'm awareness, they wouldn't even know what that meant. I wouldn't even know where to start, as this seeking/finding is almost a calling, something one "must" do or I had to do.

Can anyone relate?

This forum has become my spiritual family and to those I've known over the years, since 2010, who have been on this journey with me. I want to personally thank each and every one of you for every post you've ever made! I wouldn't be where I am today without you all ! :)

And as you may have noticed, you now see my face vs an avatar, as I no longer care if I have anonymity.

Ha, and I just realized I'm one post away from 1500 posts, that's a lot of damn talking, whew!
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby maaref » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:31 pm

That is a very warm message that touched my heart. Although I have not been a participant in this forum until lately, I do relate to what you say. There is a sense of loneliness and detachment from emotions, that is also fine.

I found that after this stage, other doors open to acquire more "specific" knowledge on how things are and how to better align yourself to consciousness. Such knowledge may sometimes shake/test your core beliefs and understanding of consciousness itself. I do not believe it is "necessary" to go down this route, but for some reason I find myself drawn to it. I do not believe that there is an end to this journey (as even if you are completely conscious of your true self, acquisition of knowledge changes your behavior). But again, I believe that for each their unique journey.
maaref
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:45 am

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:13 pm

That is a very warm message that touched my heart.


Thanks Maaref :)

I do relate to what you say. There is a sense of loneliness and detachment from emotions, that is also fine.


I figured there had to be others feeling similiar. Yeah, it's strange, because its like finding treasure, but not being able to share it with your friends or family. Like if you gave them a piece of gold, but they saw it as a lump of clay and you knew they'd see it as a lump of clay, so you just hide the treasure away, until a day perhaps when you notice signs they may find value in it, if you were to share it with them.

I found that after this stage, other doors open to acquire more "specific" knowledge on how things are and how to better align yourself to consciousness.


In Vedanta, acquiring more specific knowledge on how things are, as you say, would just be learning the cosmology and ontological order of reality. Its part of the teaching of Vedanta.

But, they don't say "aligning oneself with conciousness", as you can't be more aligned with what pervades everything, including yourself as a person. So, they say that the understanding within the intellect, of the teaching and realization, has to be fully "assimilated" into every area of one's life.

Like what you say here-

(as even if you are completely conscious of your true self, acquisition of knowledge changes your behavior).



It may or may not change ones outward behaviour, it depends. True understanding is knowing you (awareness) are free "from" the person you appear to be, but Self realization is also "for" the person, because it's the end of the belief that you are a limited volitional person, so with that understanding, although pain and pleasure persist, suffering ends for the person, which is freedom. Herein lies the paradox.

But again, I believe that for each their unique journey.


Yes, I see it this way too.

Thanks for posting!

Dij
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby kiki » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:32 pm

Very nice post, dijmart.

It's very simple and ordinary its amazing how it was over looked.


I think this is precisely why it gets overlooked. It's just too simple, too ordinary.

It was known in one's early years when it was just the natural way of experiencing the self/world. There was no effort and no struggle then to be at peace. There was just "this", and "this" was simplicity itself. "This" didn't require anything at all.

Then as the mind began to mature it faded to the background and was eventually forgotten. Time rolled on and mind became ever more dominant until that separate sense of self/ego developed and then became entrenched until that became the norm. Attention was now directed outwardly to get what ego/mind wanted, and that's where it went when it wanted something that would last, where "things" were thought to be the answer.

Ego/mind didn't know yet that achieving outward goals wouldn't bing what would last, so it continued to struggle. At some point it was realized that the underlying real goal of lasting peace, happiness and satisfaction couldn't be found "out there", and so a different path began to unfold, a path that would eventually be directed inwardly. The "in here" had been forgotten, yet "in here" remained, and now "in here"/now/presence was just waiting to be noticed once again.

The mind seldom even considers that "in here" is where to look, where to direct attention and where to find. When the seeking ends, when effort stops, when mind ceases doing its "thing" it is still here in its ever present fullness. Only in its discovery does one realize how simple and ordinary it is.

Yes, it's amazing, amazing in its simplicity. Who would have even thought how simple it really is? Even when informed of the simplicity of "this" people usually don't believe it, so getting that idea successfully conveyed to others is the challenge. Getting through to people this simple thing can be hard because each person isn't always ready to abandon their usual strategy of getting what they want via the the mind. Each person is unique in their circumstances, in what they know and how their conditioning affects their approach to the circumstance of finding what can't be found out there? How does one get another to abandon their conditioning, to not use their mind, not to exert effort, to simply be?

That's the challenge. When you see it for yourself you are surprised at how simple it really is.

The struggle reminds me of this quote from Shakespeare:

But man, proud man,
Drest in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d;
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven,
As make the angels weep.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---
Your donation will help keep us online.
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:27 pm

Hi Kiki,

Nice to see a post from you. :wink:

Very nice post, dijmart.


Thank you!

I think this is precisely why it gets overlooked. It's just too simple, too ordinary.


Yep, also I think people are to interested in chasing spiritual "experiences", like samadhi's and kundalini awakenings (which come and go). Its not that there's anything wrong with it, but they're useless if inquiry is not used to understand the experience. Many find these experiences so enjoyable that, instead of chasing worldly objects, they then start chasing spiritual objects (experience), round and round they go, not realizing they are still not recognizing their true Self (awareness) is the changeless substratum of it all.


When you see it for yourself you are surprised at how simple it really is.


Yes, it's a bit of a shock. Realizing it took years to see "this"... :lol: That "this", is/what all the masters have been pointing to.

Thanks for your reply, nice post!
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby kiki » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:47 am

Yep, also I think people are to interested in chasing spiritual "experiences", like samadhi's and kundalini awakenings (which come and go). Its not that there's anything wrong with it, but they're useless if inquiry is not used to understand the experience. Many find these experiences so enjoyable that, instead of chasing worldly objects, they then start chasing spiritual objects (experience), round and round they go, not realizing they are still not recognizing their true Self (awareness) is the changeless substratum of it all.



Well said, dijmart.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---
Your donation will help keep us online.
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4363
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Onceler » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:39 pm

I can relate to what you say, Dijmart, although I am not certain my experience is the same to yours. I know my seeking is over for now, and it was feverish and all consuming, as is that sense that I was missing something. I agree that it is utterly simple, who we are. And utterly profound. I've been lonely all my life, so I don't feel that lonely now, and in some ways I feel more connected to others. I have surface fears and anxieties that come and go, but there is an abiding peace and sense of profound identity that is always there.

I also agree in your gratitude to this forum. Participating here has shaped who I am and literally sent me in directions that were meaningful and life changing.
Be present, be pleasant.
User avatar
Onceler
 
Posts: 2200
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby ashley72 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:35 pm

I think your transitioning at the moment.... posting a picture of yourself is a telltale sign.

And you are never at the end. Always in a state of flux, constantly transitioning. You may even find yourself disagreeing with some of your core beliefs now in a few years from now. It's called growth or decay depending on how you choose to perceive the change at that time.
User avatar
ashley72
 
Posts: 2533
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:24 am

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:59 am

Nice post Onceler! :D

I have surface fears and anxieties that come and go, but there is an abiding peace and sense of profound identity that is always there.


Yes! :wink:
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:06 am

Hi Ashley,

Of course Dij is transitioning, she always is, as you say, in a state of flux. That's Isvara's territory, I'm enjoying the ride, knowing I'm the one aware of Dij and the ride. :wink:

Peace,

Dij
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:15 am

Lovely, dij, others...

I was sitting at a table a few years back at the Science and Nonduality Conference and a fellow and I began talking. He said something like: "For years I was a seeker...a deep struggling seeker. Then I met XXX (who became his guru) who simply said: "Stop being a seeker. Be a 'finder.'" I don't remember who the guru was; it doesn't matter...my point here is there is a big difference between being a "seeker" as an ego-label and being a finder. I know two or three fine, dedicated people who do not recognize that they are obsessive seekers. They look for the next guru at whose feet to sit. That is their place...at the feet of a guru. And not finding.

Finding is not only an "inner hike" but also a trusting. Kiki was fond of a metaphor years ago: a person is afraid of letting go of a rope, fearing the fall. Hanging onto the rope, hanging onto the guru's words...hoping and hoping. But afraid to let go of the rope. Finally the rope is released. And the great fall begins. It is a fall of one millimeter. (Help me, Kiki if I have mis-stated that!)

kiki among others know how much this forum changed my life about nine years ago. I had one of those transient kenshos. But it was big and pretty much very disorienting. kiki helped me greatly as did a few others. I also got to type words onto a keyboard and get feedback - hugely helpful in understanding my experiences...still is.

And yes, dij - it's great to put a face with your splendid posts!

Hey, ash...how about you??? :-)

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6182
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby ashley72 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:31 pm

Andy,

You may have forgotten but I was the first one to start the trend of posting an avatar selfie a few years back (prior to that no one ever bothered with real avatars in this forum). I think my current avatar is a much better representation of my identity on this forum. One where I share ideas I've gleaned from great thinkers of our time, Hofstadter, Leibniz, Jaynes, Bohm, Schrodinger, Carver Mead etc... bookish knowledge!

My views have changed quite a bit from when I first started seeking help from others who had battled and conquered their nervous illness. I originally thought adopting I'm the "the watcher" world-view was going to solve my troublesome thoughts but it didn't. I eventually understood it was more to do with cybernetics than meditation
techniques. Hints by famous great thinkers like Leibniz were important sign posts... " The imaginary number is a wonderful refuge for the divine spirit, almost amphibian between being & not being." This is really talking about nothing more than the recursion between 0 or 1's. Analogue to the crest & trough or a wave. Most people don't realize that a rotating circle or loop projects horizontally to a sin-cos wave signal on the time axis. Our consciousness +'thinker is like the 0,1s or trough,crest... or analogies pointing to the same basic truth or universal structure.

Most don't know that all the chemical elements in the periodic table are derived from the fusion process of hydrogen an atomic structure comprising of one electron or oscillating standing wave pattern. Everything that is... comes from this energy/matter oscillating superfluid... which can be represented by O,1 in the digital or abstract mapping. We think by analogy.

Understanding feedback is much more important than knowledge of awareness or the watcher. We are basically a bunch of recursive processors which are a marriage of both the watcher + thinker components. Both equally as important as each other.

If you want to overcome the troublesome thinker, you don't find refuge in being the watcher. You overcome the trouble by acceptance & exposure to the troublesome thinker... stop running, escaping or avoiding. Because any avoiding will only maintain the driving force of the recursive process. Panic breeds panic... because the output/response acts as input/stimulus and so loop back into its self & multiple.
User avatar
ashley72
 
Posts: 2533
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:24 am

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:48 pm

Thanks Andy!

Kiki was fond of a metaphor years ago: a person is afraid of letting go of a rope, fearing the fall. Hanging onto the rope, hanging onto the guru's words...hoping and hoping. But afraid to let go of the rope. Finally the rope is released. And the great fall begins. It is a fall of one millimeter. (Help me, Kiki if I have mis-stated that!)


:lol:

Yes, it's really just a mis-understanding of your true identity. You couldn't be any closer to yourself (awareness), as there is "no" distance what ..so ..ever.


I also got to type words onto a keyboard and get feedback - hugely helpful in understanding


Yes, I agree, but I remember some wicked headaches trying to "get" what people were saying. Also, some verbal slaps to the face, I got from Key master and snowy in the early years, for being such a spiritual dummy! :lol:


And yes, dij - it's great to put a face with your splendid posts!


Awee thanks...I put up my pic here for a whole 2 days once, a couple yrs ago, then freaked out and took it down..lol. I'm leaving it this time. 8)
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:59 pm

Hi Ashley,

I remember your picture, then after awhile you fuzzed out your face, because you were into Douglas Hardings "no head" techniques..lol.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:03 pm

ash - no problem re photo, and yes, you are a bookish sort.

You overcome the trouble by acceptance & exposure to the troublesome thinker... stop running, escaping or avoiding. Because any avoiding will only maintain the driving force of the recursive process. Panic breeds panic... because the output/response acts as input/stimulus and so loop back into its self & multiple.


I certainly agree with the not avoiding, and of course agree that for you, whatever works permanently was/is the solution for you.

If you want to overcome the troublesome thinker, you don't find refuge in being the watcher


Some people do find refuge there. It's unlikely to be a cure for troublesome thinking, but at least it allows one to recognize that they are not exclusively the thinker..."Who is watching?" becomes the return to self-inquiry.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6182
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests