Seeking/finding

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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby runstrails » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:14 am

Hi Dij,
Nice post! I also have great love and gratitude for this forum (little blue island as Andy calls it). I also share your love for Vedanta. It's good to have a fellow vedantin on the forum. Hopefully we won't get kicked out for using too much sanskrit :wink:.

Ashley wrote: And you are never at the end. Always in a state of flux, constantly transitioning. You may even find yourself disagreeing with some of your core beliefs now in a few years from now. It's called growth or decay depending on how you choose to perceive the change at that time.


Yup--totally agree here. Even after one has firm knowledge of one's true nature, I find that insights continue. There is an ever deepening of understanding and sometimes doubts (about cosmology for me) do come up and then it's right back to inquiry.

In Vedanta, we say that the last phase of self inquiry (nidhidhyasana) goes on until the day you die. That is the constant contemplation and application of teachings/inquiry. Vigilance is the price of freedom (I'm quoting from a Vedanta teacher here).
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:07 am

Hi RT,

Little blue island, nice!

It's good to have a fellow vedantin on the forum. Hopefully we won't get kicked out for using too much sanskrit :wink:.


Yes, one day out of the clear blue, the thought came to mind, ...what is this Vedanta stuff I remember RT writing about? It took me reading many of your old posts, to finally find one that lead me to James Swartz (Vedanta teacher, for those that don't know), because of that search, I've included his and Ted's info/websites in my signature.

Lol, the Sanskrit, I can't help myself, it just happens! Your Sanskrit vocabulary is larger then mine I've noticed, as you've been a Vedantin for several years now. If I get kicked out, at least I can say its been a good run!!!
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby ashley72 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:58 pm

dijmart wrote:Hi Ashley,

I remember your picture, then after awhile you fuzzed out your face, because you were into Douglas Hardings "no head" techniques..lol.


Good memory... I use to have a good lark drumming up heated debates about my latest esoteric offerings. The no head pointer by Douglass was classic, Greg Goode's technique also comes to mind around the same time. All those techniques worked in getting you to experiment with the formless nature of awareness(as Douglass used to say). But none of them were effective at curing my nervous illness as they were all subtle avoidance strategies.
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:08 pm

ashley72 wrote:
dijmart wrote:Hi Ashley,

I remember your picture, then after awhile you fuzzed out your face, because you were into Douglas Hardings "no head" techniques..lol.


Good memory... I use to have a good lark drumming up heated debates about my latest esoteric offerings. The no head pointer by Douglass was classic, Greg Goode's technique also comes to mind around the same time. All those techniques worked in getting you to experiment with the formless nature of awareness(as Douglass used to say). But none of them were effective at curing my nervous illness as they were all subtle avoidance strategies.


You also were the one who gave me a link to Nisargadatta's book "I AM that". How I remember all this is beyond me..lol.

As I've stated in many posts I also suffered with severe mental health issues, but no longer seem to have symptoms. I do still take meds though, as disorders such as Bipolar are not "fixed" by spiritual approaches alone, sorry to burst anyone's bubble who may think it does. Bipolar is predominately a neurobiological disorder, malfunction of certain brain chemicals with a genetic component (my mother has it) and environmental factors can trigger or worsen the disorder.

My approach was two fold, traditional therapy/medication and spiritual. It worked. It doesn't have to be either/or, it can be both/and, if they are in balance.
Last edited by dijmart on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:03 pm

dij -

Really important comment there about awakening not "fixing" some disorders. The chemistry of treating bipolarity is pretty well understood. My mother was bipolar and well-controlled with lithium for years. Also, clinical depression does not necessarily vanish on awakening.

However, I believe that cognitive dissonance-type mental disorders can clear from an abiding awakening experience. I also believe that waking up brings with it access to deeper, subconscious, unconscious "stuff," and allows it to be exposed to the crucible of awareness, and begin to dissipate. Also habitual neurotic thinking habits are seen from a distance and not reinforced. After his big three awakenings, Adyashanti used to be aware as deep "fixations" would arise...he would sit in a coffee shop and just be with them. The "old stuff" was brought out for recognition, ownership to a certain degree, inspection and transcending. Not, as Ashley warns, suppression or resistance. One can say: "This ____ has been a part of me. It has not been useful. I can accept that it was part of me and I can replace it with other, or no beliefs." (That phrasing was really part of the Sedona Method.)

There are a whole group of talk-therapists (many with PhDs) in and around Marin County, CA who use nondual techniques. Starting books are "The Sacred Mirror" and "Listening from the Heart of Silence."

No one will ever get kicked out for using Sanskrit!! That said, using words from a foreign language with complex translations (like "dharma") should be accompanied by the best translation you can muster.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:29 pm

Andy, I completely agree with your post! :D Thanks for adding the additional, much needed, information.

I must have forgotten to add a translation when I wrote- dharma (righteous way of living). Sorry! :wink:
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:31 pm

Dharma is a horrible word. Different Buddhist traditions interpret it differently. It is as bad a word as "love" or "karma" or "enlightenment" or "oversoul." But we need all those words and need to clarify what we mean, too, as well as we can. I try not to use "dharma," partly because I'm not sure I really understand it, and partly because it might validate the concept of a "separate inside self" to "follow his or her Dharma." A whole essay could be written on "Dharmic implications in Advaita Vedanta'" but I am not going to write it!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:18 pm

Yeah, dharma means more then "righteous way of living" but, I wasn't going to write an essay on it either. I know what the Vedanta teachers at shiningworld mean when they use it, depending on how they use it. Like if they say "dharma field" they mean something different, then using the word alone. I've only used the word once here on this forum and that didn't go over so well, obviously..lol. So, I will try to refrain from using it!
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:01 am

No, use it, dij, just be clear about it, because it is horrible and confusing, but really important also, and used well, it is helpful. I was not scolding.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby dijmart » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:48 pm

Sighclone wrote:No, use it, dij, just be clear about it, because it is horrible and confusing, but really important also, and used well, it is helpful. I was not scolding.

Andy


Ok
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby kiki » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:26 pm

Kiki was fond of a metaphor years ago: a person is afraid of letting go of a rope, fearing the fall. Hanging onto the rope, hanging onto the guru's words...hoping and hoping. But afraid to let go of the rope. Finally the rope is released. And the great fall begins. It is a fall of one millimeter. (Help me, Kiki if I have mis-stated that!)


Close, Andy, but you are a millimeter off.

The unconscious (therefore fearful) person has been standing on the ground the whole time without knowing it. He is holding tightly to the rope, believing he's dangling far above the ground. The ego's perceived lifeline is the rope of beliefs and identity mind has constructed, keeping him from crashing to earth if they are abandoned. However, when the courage is mustered to let go there is no crash because it's found that the ground, which was thought to be far below, is in fact the ground of one's very Being. Realizing that he is now no longer "unconscious", but awake to the reality of who/what he is.


Not only have you been standing on the ground the whole time it is found you are the ground itself. So, beingness/ground, can never be even a millimeter away. Separation from the ground only exists in the mind of the ego.
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Re: Seeking/finding

Postby Sighclone » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:07 pm

Thanks, kiki!

Andy
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