One of the biggest traps

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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby borris83 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:05 am

Obviously, It was only said by one person in the court and the tape was not produced in the court. Having seen completely about Osho and knowing what a person he was, I won't believe that he approved murdering people. He really wanted nothing in life and didnt care about anything. He was just working with people who were his close disciples to help them realize their true nature.

Here is a comment from one of Osho's sannaysins who was present at that time:

"Ava was much younger than the other 38 conspirators that Sheela formed in the Spring of 1985. (Around 20 years of age). A Court case had gone against the Ranch at that time, (the Helen Burns case, cant remember the name exactly). Burns had lent the Ranch a lot of bread in 1982, and wanted it back. Sheela argued it had been a gift. But the court case went against Sheela, and the money had to be repaid, and there were extremely large court costs as I remember.

After that Sheela began to form hit squads, etc and became fully psychotic.

As Jayananda says Sheela was an expert in manipulating Osho and what he said to benefit her own agenda.

The so-called Hitler tape was hardly audible, and was transcribed as Sheela wanted it to be. It’s possible the whole business of a tape was a fabrication to gain the loyalty of the conspirators, or a tape mix of Osho talks, conflated together to match what Sheela wanted him to have said. There were certainly technicians on the Ranch who could do that at the time.
"

You can read the whole article here and there are a lot of comments from many people who knew Osho, it is a post by Sheela's ex-husband:
http://sannyasnews.org/now/archives/2010

The murder plan was Sheela's plan and she was trying to make the people who were involved with her to believe that Osho has approved her plans.
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby dijmart » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:51 am

I guess we'll never know if the tape was fabricated, however when you say, "Obviously, It was only said by one person in the court". It was one person on that transcription, but...

From the website you provided, one person said-

"I have read Ava’s testimony, I don’t think she just said anything to get all the conspirators into trouble, her testimony correlates with other testimony that was given by other, older sannyasins who were involved.

She gave testimony in federal court with some pretty rigid repercussions if she was later found out to be lying."

And someone else, on that site-

"You are right that others in Sheela’s gang gave testimony to the same Court as Ava, but all of them had a great deal at stake, as did Ava, in making it look like they were simply following orders so they would all confirm the significance of the tape at that meeting, and say they believed the indications came from Osho."

So, apparently, they all gave testimony regarding hearing the Hitler tape. Were they all lying??? With the penalty of perjury? Or worse?... Was the tape real or not...? Dunno

Ok, I'm realllllly tired of it all now. I bet you are also...truce?
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby borris83 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:04 pm

For me, it looks like the only possibility is that the tape was fabricated.. Because, anyway it was all Sheela's idea, she was the one who planned the murder. Just to make it look like Osho had also given the approval for that, she had created such a tape. Because, even the transcription doesn't sound natural, it is not direct. Because the transcription was not like "Yes Sheela, go ahead and complete the murder. Tell our people that they have my approval'.. Not even close, and the tape was not clearly audible.

Ok, I'm realllllly tired of it all now. I bet you are also...truce?


Kind of.. I don't know, all of a sudden I may get more energy and I might feel fresh about this conversation.. :wink:
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby dijmart » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:33 pm

I don't know, all of a sudden I may get more energy and I might feel fresh about this conversation.. :wink:



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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby Reagan » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:08 pm

Hey djmart,
I'm very much a Firefly myself, and I'm very busy figuring out how to bring presence to my daily life. I'm still learning who this new person is! But I remember vividly how it first felt to be the watcher of the Painbody. I felt it rising up, caught it, and let myself go into it. It had a very nasty frantic energy, and it made me want to drop it like a hot stone. And in that moment, I understood completely how easy it could be to just let yourself fall into that unconsciously. But never again! That was not a thing that I would ever choose, but it can certainly choose me. I have experienced the rapid transmutation of those negative feelings discussed in PON. I put a lot of my effort into being the watcher, and it helps me immensely in my daily life.

I am wrestling with the past..... I have let go of the pain associated with the past, at least to a large part. But is the past real? I know ET says to "die to the past each day" and I struggle with what that means to me. My thinking, at least at present, is the past IS real. It is the summation or all my nows for as long as I am in the world of form. Without it, I could not be having this conversation as my accumulated knowledge allows me to form these words, ponder their meaning, and type this response. The past to me seems an integral part of my consciousness. It provides me an invaluable reference that I use to shape my now. It just does not need all the mind baggage that wants to tag along. I have read many times the latter parts of PON where consciousness can even transcend the world of form. And in many ways, it has for me. I do find that the world of form is not nearly as important to me now, yet I still perceive myself a long way from "enlightened", at least not for more than moments at a time. But those moments are POWERFUL and in those moments I know to my CORE that they are real and my path is true. But those moments fade into past and then, shallow comparison that it is, I only have those past memories. But they are my guides that I must Now use to get back to that state more frequently. Just as with my mind, I try to let the past be a tool that I use consciously, and not let it use me. I look forward to the groups thoughts on my thinking on past.

I'm sorry about your duck..... It reminds me of Fred the goldfish in PON. It only causes you pain because you labeled it, gave it a name, and mind associated with it in the world of form. Easy to say and understand, hard to effect change.

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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby dijmart » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:48 am

Hi Reagon,

I put a lot of my effort into being the watcher, and it helps me immensely in my daily life.


Yep, it does, discriminate between what's real, you (awareness) and objects (reflective awareness/illusion), which includes the body/mind. This is hard to do, because even when we know this the mind has a tendency to keep identifying with the body/mind.

But is the past real?


No more real then the present. Meaning it existed, because we experienced it, but it was ever changing, therefore not ultimately "real". Since the past isn't even "currently" experienceable, except in memory, I'd say it doesn't even exist any longer, although it did have a hand to play in our conditioning and where we find ourself now, as a "person".

It just does not need all the mind baggage that wants to tag along.


Right!..that causes suffering. Either you want back what you had or you want to change something in the past. Neither are helpful.

I have read many times the latter parts of PON where consciousness can even transcend the world of form


Gee, I haven't read PON for years! Anyways, it would be you identifying with awareness completely that would trancend the world of form. Meaning, no-thing could rock your world, as you would know yourself first as awareness and the person second. So, although ups and downs, as well as pleasures/pains will occur, suffering ends. You would have rock solid knowledge that nothing can elevate, nor decrease your essential nature.

I'm sorry about your duck..... It reminds me of Fred the goldfish in PON.


Thanks, yeah, I don't remember Fred..lol.

It only causes you pain because you labeled it, gave it a name, and mind associated with it in the world of form.


You "are" awareness, but you are experiencing through the human form. Meaning you are "associated" with the body/mind until the death of the body. Don't lose love and compassion through this process. Please don't tell someone who loses a child the same thing you said to me (above) about my pet....it lacks compassion and understanding, on a human level. :wink:

"Wisdom tells me I am no-thing, love tells me I am every-thing, between the two my life moves"

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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby meetjoeblack » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:34 am

dijmart wrote:I think one of the biggest traps is thinking that you have gone off course or whatever, just because you're feeling pain. Pain is what the "apparent" person experiences as the opposite of pleasure. That is "not" going to change. You can only change your reaction to it, somewhat...because, damn it, pain is painful!

I've been riddled with illness lately, bank accounts were hacked, my duckie died yesterday in her water bucket and this is just in the past 2 weeks! You just have to let the movie play out..do what you can and move forward, knowing you are watching the movie...you aren't what you can see. Meaning, this is all playing out within me, awareness, but since I'm associated with the "apparent" person...it's still painful.


I have not been on too much lately. Sorry about all this.

I hope you are well. You have real healing energy (do you do reiki? lol). I am sure this will pass and something more exciting will come along. Maybe a win of a trip or lottery. Something to counter-balance all this.

I cannot relate to this but, I feel the ping in energy in my life like a pendulum.

One instant, I am beaming of light, I am inspiring, and motivating others. Other times, I am reaching out for a life preserver in anyway, shape or form. Thanks for listening.

I hope things are turning around now.
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby dijmart » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Things seemed to be turning around...then not. The past 8 months have been a nightmare. Nothing more to say.
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby Onceler » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:27 am

So sorry dijmart and I hope things get better. Of course I'm not worried about you, just your circumstances. It sucks to have a string of bad luck.
"When the fear is gone, the mind becomes much quieter, much less full of things. Thoughts become like a gentle rain rather than a thunderstorm." John Sherman
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby Mystic » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:39 am

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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby dijmart » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:01 am

Thanks
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Re: One of the biggest traps

Postby meetjoeblack » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:04 am

dijmart wrote:Things seemed to be turning around...then not. The past 8 months have been a nightmare. Nothing more to say.


The ups and downs are tough. I have this feeling like I am Arnold winning Mr Olympia or Neo in the Matrix wall running or doing something crazy awesome. Other times, its like I am entirely different person. Something that has been helping me is gratitude. It is as if I am entering into a portal. I have used meditation on loss, my life, and those I love. Also, pranic breathing, subconscious releases, and guided meditations. Letting go. Its shocking what comes to the surface that I didn't know about. I don't quite understand the ripple affect in my energy or the energies around me. I am becoming more aware of it or energy vampires.

Thinking and hoping things turn around DijM.
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