(Dis-)Identification with mind

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(Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Wed May 10, 2017 1:54 pm

Hi everyone!

The direct path approach calls for dis-identifying with objects ... and, instead, identifying with the aware-ing of objects.

I don't have much trouble seeing/feeling that I am not this body (aggregate of cells), or this external world (job, possessions, stuff) but feeling I am not this mind – memory, thoughts, feelings, images – is much harder. The body seems like a suit of clothes ... but the mind seems real, me. At a deep level I identify with it, feel I *am* it. It's very hard to see mental arisings as impersonal objects ... I always felt that the real me was my internal life, my inside.

How does (dis-)identification with objects, body and mind, work for you?
Last edited by rachMiel on Wed May 10, 2017 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby eputkonen » Wed May 10, 2017 3:23 pm

The brain is very much a reactive organ and has thoughts and judgments about everything, so it more that thoughts happen to you...you are not thinking them (i.e. they are not you). At night, something comes rushing at you in the dark...you may scream, have feelings of fear, have the though "what is that!"...but this is all reactionary to an unknown rushing at you in the dark. You didn't choose to scream, feel fear, or think "what is that!" It happened to you.

Memory is just a mental record of the past...you are present. If something happened and you got temporary, but total amnesia...would you really cease to be you? If it can come and/or go...it is not you. Just like if you lose an arm or a leg, you don't cease to be you.

When you are truly and deeply present...there is no thought...no memory...etc. When you are present...do you feel like you are no longer you?
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Wed May 10, 2017 3:47 pm

eputkonen wrote:When you are present...do you feel like you are no longer you?

The question doesn't even come up when I'm present. Pondering it would require stepping outside of presence.

I get the rationale/logic of my interior world not actually being "owned" by a concrete me. But the gut feeling lingers ...

Take away my body and put my brain/mind in a vat, I would still exist.
Take away my brain/mind and put my body in a vat ... bye-bye I, all that would remain is an empty husk.

The interesting question is, I guess: Take away everything but pure awareness, do I still exist?
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby Rob X » Fri May 12, 2017 3:37 pm

rachMiel wrote:Hi everyone!

The direct path approach calls for dis-identifying with objects ... and, instead, identifying with the aware-ing of objects.

I don't have much trouble seeing/feeling that I am not this body (aggregate of cells), or this external world (job, possessions, stuff) but feeling I am not this mind – memory, thoughts, feelings, images – is much harder. The body seems like a suit of clothes ... but the mind seems real, me. At a deep level I identify with it, feel I *am* it. It's very hard to see mental arisings as impersonal objects ... I always felt that the real me was my internal life, my inside.

How does (dis-)identification with objects, body and mind, work for you?


I’ve never been much of a fan of this type of approach. “…dis-identifying with objects ... and, instead, identifying with the aware-ing of objects” sounds a lot like the dualism of the Samkhya school.

This question of identity is an interesting one. Some give the impression that in order to realise your true nature of no separation/oneness there has to be a relinquishing of the person/me sense. In my experience this is not true.

Firstly it’s important to see that the person/me sense is an activity - it’s not a thing. It’s an activity of Source/Life/Reality/God/Awareness (or whatever your preference is.) So even now as person-ing (in all of its complexity) is taking place, it is simply a play of Source. It’s not separate from Source, it’s not other than Source. And just like the trees and the birds and the moon and the tides… it can be allowed to unfold in its natural order (of course the very realisation of this may well have a profound effect on its unfoldment.)

So an important question might be, can I simultaneously have a sense of me-ness and recognise my true nature? Well yes, because the activity of the sense 'I am me/Rob' is an activity of Source. I am Source in motion (if you like.) Whatever Rob does or thinks or feels is always already the play of a greater reality. True identity doesn’t require the giving up of the ‘me’ sense, it simply places it in a context which was previously obscured.
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby dijmart » Sat May 13, 2017 2:26 am

RM said-
"The interesting question is, I guess: Take away everything but pure awareness, do I still exist?"


Only as sat-chit-ananda- existence, conciousness, bliss. So, do "you" RM exist in the above sentence? No. We can't conceive of sat-chit-ananda, imo, or should I say I cant. Not while experiencing....
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Sat May 13, 2017 2:53 pm

Rob X wrote:I’ve never been much of a fan of this type of approach. “…dis-identifying with objects ... and, instead, identifying with the aware-ing of objects” sounds a lot like the dualism of the Samkhya school.

I don't think that's what the direct pathies like Rupert Spira, Greg Goode, Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti have in mind. It's more like non-dualism in which awareness is seen as the true self (= all that is) and objects that appear in awareness as fleeting arisings, vivid mirages. It's a challenging approach for me, doesn't come very naturally, but I feel it's the right path ... for now. :-)
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Sat May 13, 2017 3:08 pm

dijmart wrote:
RM said-
"The interesting question is, I guess: Take away everything but pure awareness, do I still exist?"


Only as sat-chit-ananda- existence, conciousness, bliss. So, do "you" RM exist in the above sentence? No.

Makes sense. Though I'm not sure if satchitananda is I/Self ... it's an experiencing (of Brahman) ... is the Self = experiencing?
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby dijmart » Sat May 13, 2017 4:17 pm

rachMiel wrote:
dijmart wrote:
RM said-
"The interesting question is, I guess: Take away everything but pure awareness, do I still exist?"


Only as sat-chit-ananda- existence, conciousness, bliss. So, do "you" RM exist in the above sentence? No.

Makes sense. Though I'm not sure if satchitananda is I/Self ... it's an experiencing (of Brahman) ... is the Self = experiencing?


Hi RM,

This explains satchitananda better then I could-

"Brahman, limitless awareness, in its association with the jiva is referred to as atma, the self, whose nature is indicated as sat-chit-ananda. Sat equates with satyam and indicates “is-ness.” Though the attributes that characterize and differentiate one individual from other individuals are innumerable and varied, the awareness upon which all individuals—and, for that matter, all objects—depend for their existence is one and the same. Thus, when we say that any particular person or object is, that “is-ness” is sat.



Chit correlates with jnanam and indicates the consciousness that lends sentiency to the mind-body-sense complex and, thus, serves as the catalyst that sets its components into motion and enables it to perceive objects, process experience, project ideas, and produce actions. Thus, while jnanam is the knowledge that imbues existence with “knowability,” when manifest in the mind-body-sense complex, chit refers more specifically to pure awareness in its aspect as the consciousness that illumines the mind and affords it the capacity to know objects. To be clear, chit itself is not the knower, but is rather the “light” of awareness in which objects are revealed and, thus, are made known to the jiva, the apparent individual knower, through the mechanism of the mind.



Ananda correlates with ananta and indicates the wholeness, completeness, or perfect fullness intrinsic to limitlessness, for by definition that which is limitless lacks nothing. Almost invariably, however, ananda is translated as “bliss” and is misinterpreted to indicate experiential happiness, a perpetual state of emotional euphoria or mental peace characterized by cheesy grins, hearty laughter, and lengthy hugs. The reason for this mistake is that the word ananda does refer to experiential bliss in other contexts. Within the context of Vedanta, however, ananda is used as a technical term that is best translated as wholeness or completeness. Admittedly, the sense of wholeness, completeness, and perfect fullness does tend to produce the experience of joy and contentment within the psyche of the apparent individual. As an aspect of the essential nature of absolute awareness, however, ananda cannot indicate experiential bliss. Experience is an object, while limitless awareness has no attributes and thus, by definition, is non-objectifiable."

Ted Schmidt
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Sat May 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Nice! Thanks, dij. :-)
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby dijmart » Sat May 13, 2017 7:03 pm

rachMiel wrote:Nice! Thanks, dij. :-)


Your welcome!
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby rachMiel » Sat May 13, 2017 8:00 pm

You like this Ted Schmidt guy? Who are your favorite living Advaita teachers? For me, traditional are Dennis Waite and James Swartz and and neo/direct-path are Rupert Spira and Greg Goode and of course Meister Tolle.
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby dijmart » Sat May 13, 2017 8:47 pm

rachMiel wrote:You like this Ted Schmidt guy? Who are your favorite living Advaita teachers? For me, traditional are Dennis Waite and James Swartz and and neo/direct-path are Rupert Spira and Greg Goode and of course Meister Tolle.


Yes, I like Ted, he is who I email with Vedanta questions. I find he is very clear when he answers. Although he can get pretty long winded at times. His teacher was James Swartz and that's who I started with and is still my go to person when I want to watch a video talk. I personally think James is great when teaching in person (video) and Ted's strength is when he writes. To be fair though Ted only did one Satsang series that was taped that I know of....where James has taught Vedanta in person for years and years, but I don't find is writing as clear sometimes.

I haven't emailed, read or watched anything for a couple months, as I had lost focus and discrimination, but it's returning...slowly, but surely.

Except, on FB I'm a member of James Swartz, Adyashanti and Nisargadatta groups. So, I see quotes and posts which is a nice reminder.
Last edited by dijmart on Sat May 13, 2017 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (Dis-)Identification with mind

Postby dijmart » Sat May 13, 2017 8:56 pm

In the past I watched a little Rupert, read a bit of Dennis Waite after you mentioned him and of course tons of Tolle (not for awhile tho).
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