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if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:32 pm
by logan65
then how do I get free?

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:33 am
by eputkonen
Free from what?

Within that very question is the implication that you are not free...and that is why you are not free.
The more basic question is, "who/what is this 'you' that thinks you are not free?"
Delve into this. Also, who/what are you really?
Realize this...and you will realize there never were any bonds in the first place.

You can not realize the answer to "who/what am I" by thinking about it.
Instead, be still, be quiet, be present...and it may reveal itself to itself.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:40 am
by dijmart
logan65 wrote:then how do I get free?


We are born, ego slowly forms over time. We think ourselves to be limited individual beings. Trying to gain/cling to happiness and push away fears/sadness our whole life is made up of these movements. It's challenging to see through this game. A time comes when perhaps you do see through it, enough to know that there most be more. Tired of chasing objects and suffering from life's woes.... you become a spiritual seeker. You read, inquire, meditate trying to "get" it. Some do get it, for others it may take a thousand more lifetimes, who knows.

What works for one person may not work for another. I could suggest subjecting your mind to the teaching of James Swartz (Vedanta teacher), but that doesn't mean it will work for you, because I don't know your background and with Vedanta you have to have a certain readiness or so they say.

Even if you choose to get on the Vedanta bus, so to speak, it takes time for the mind to fully assimilate Self knowledge. Until it's fully assimilated suffering can and does still happen, as the teaching is not 100% firm in the mind.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 4:21 am
by Webwanderer
logan65 wrote:then how do I get free?

I second Eric's question "free from what?"

Regardless, somewhere in the answer is going to be to 'feel your way'. It's thinking and making assumptions that has brought you to the perspective, with all its limitations, that you now hold. We're all in the same boat to some degree however. That's just how the human system was devised. While thinking can still be useful, it is likely to be mostly so only as conceptualizing partner to the insight born of perceptual feeling.

WW

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:44 am
by logan65
in what we call THE BIG BOOK of alcoholics anonymous . it states that our problem centers in our mind, we have a spiritual malady, and the solution is freedom from the bondage of self. what do you folks think about all that?..i have read pon and i'm very interested in this way of life,just as long as you don't send me out to the airport and make me sell books. lol...to make a long story short I've always had a thinking problem. iow,i think too much....

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:10 pm
by dijmart
and the solution is freedom from the bondage of self


I don't know anything about "The big book", but I would take this sentence to mean. Freedom from thinking myself as "only" a limited, individual, body/mind person. Freeing yourself from this idea.

This is also what I think you are referring to in your OP

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:36 am
by Mystic
logan65 wrote:then how do I get free?


The opposite of freedom is constraint. The opposite of freedom is also called suffering. Time is a fiction of the mind; time is a measure of change but eternity is change without measure, all is One, for ultimately there can be no opposites.

Freedom from suffering entails awakening from self imposed delusions. Every thought arises from a thought impulse - cause and effect. The ego is a servant, not a master. :D

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:50 pm
by logan65
Mystic wrote:
logan65 wrote:then how do I get free?


The opposite of freedom is constraint. The opposite of freedom is also called suffering. Time is a fiction of the mind; time is a measure of change but eternity is change without measure, all is One, for ultimately there can be no opposites.

Freedom from suffering entails awakening from self imposed delusions. Every thought arises from a thought impulse - cause and effect. The ego is a servant, not a master. :D
hell of an answer.gotta chew on that one for a minute.thank you very much.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:15 am
by logan65
dijmart wrote:
and the solution is freedom from the bondage of self


I don't know anything about "The big book", but I would take this sentence to mean. Freedom from thinking myself as "only" a limited, individual, body/mind person. Freeing yourself from this idea.

This is also what I think you are referring to in your OP
is letting go the same thing as being right here right now?

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:33 pm
by dijmart
logan65 wrote:
dijmart wrote:
and the solution is freedom from the bondage of self


I don't know anything about "The big book", but I would take this sentence to mean. Freedom from thinking myself as "only" a limited, individual, body/mind person. Freeing yourself from this idea.

This is also what I think you are referring to in your OP
is letting go the same thing as being right here right now?


Letting go of the past and/or future allows you to be right here, right now. However, just because I may have to think about either doesn't mean I'm not right here, right now at the same time. It's the clinging to or pushing away, of the past or future that is trouble some.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:55 am
by logan65
dj I appreciate yer help. one more question. can a person be unconscious and still be connected to true self?. can you be connected to the spirit of the universe and be in yer head or would you be delusional?

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:57 am
by randomguy
can a person be unconscious and still be connected to true self?. can you be connected to the spirit of the universe and be in yer head or would you be delusional?

There is no disconnection in the first place. No form undoes the formless. Nothing in our heads no matter how delusional undoes the true self that is ever present. It's the very spirit of the universe that experiences a disconnection. The one of which you are not separate observes an experience of being separate. The experience just isn't as tremendously true as we can think it is.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:47 am
by dijmart
logan65 wrote:dj I appreciate yer help. one more question. can a person be unconscious and still be connected to true self?. can you be connected to the spirit of the universe and be in yer head or would you be delusional?


You are the Self (awareness) whether you know it or not. There is no seperation, except for what we create within our minds. It's called Self ignorance (ignorance of our true nature- it's hard wired). The apparent person you seem to be is actually within you (awareness), although it doesn't feel that way when one is in a state of contraction (fear, sadness, pain) or if you haven't realized that you are the Self, that youre not the limited, individual person you think you are. You exist, you're just not real. But tell that to your ego, thats when the fun begins..lol

You will be associated with the jiva (person) until the death of the body. Experiencing thought, feelings, emotions, situations, but those are witnessed by you, therefore can not be you. You are awareness aware of it all. so, if you know you're unconscious..how do you know that? And if you know that, then..are you truly unconscious? Don't you have to step out of unconsciousness, even if briefly, to recognize that you were unconscious?

Sorry if this post was confusing at all. Let me know of you want me to clarify anything.

Dij

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:40 pm
by logan65
dj,that actually makes a lot of sense. let me chew on that( at this juncture i'm afraid to say let me "think about it".lol) for a minute and i'm sure i'll have another question.

Re: if i cant think myself free

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:02 pm
by logan65
right now i'm aware that I am aware but my mind keeps interrupting that...guess I should rephrase that to I am aware that I am the awareness...so in spiritual terms what would that state be called?..exactly what is the awareness that I am aware of called? ..my true self?