What Determines Value?

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Webwanderer
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What Determines Value?

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:35 am

How would you define a valuable life? Or what makes a life valuable?

We look around and see others in all manner of unique conditions, from rich to poor, from healthy to sick, from famous to unknown, from smart to not so much. Then of course, there is our own unique life conditions. What then, is the common denominator that makes any given life valuable? Or not?

WW

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jukai
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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by jukai » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:58 am

"hierarchy of needs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27 ... y_of_needs.

- People to share joys and sorrows with.
- Good physical health.
- Being able to indulge in hobbies or interests.
- Material comforts.
Last edited by jukai on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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turiya
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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by turiya » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:20 am

The way I see it, all lives are equally valuable because they're all different expressions of the One Life.
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:36 pm

turiya wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:20 am
The way I see it, all lives are equally valuable because they're all different expressions of the One Life.
So, are you saying that Charles Manson's life is equal to Mother Theresa? If so, what makes them so? Is that they are different the sole criteria? Or what makes that difference equally valuable?

WW

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turiya
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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by turiya » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:16 am

Both of those lives are equally valuable, yes.
(Although the Mind recoils at that statement!.... "What the hell is the value of the life of a mass murderer??!!")

Well... from the "horrific" to the "beatific" (and everything in between), all life experiences are valuable because all are necessary to define one another. How could an experience be experienced if nothing different from that experience existed?

(But then there's the question: "What's the point of all this sampling of different experiences?"

Beats me! :wink: ... Maybe so that the Universe can come to know Itself?)
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:53 am

turiya wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:16 am
(But then there's the question: "What's the point of all this sampling of different experiences?"

Beats me! :wink: ... Maybe so that the Universe can come to know Itself?)
Hmm. So the Universe gets to know first hand 'the devil in the details'. I wonder if it's kind of why we like to go to movies depicting all manor of horrid events and conditions. Experience without so much of the risk. Just like we get to walk out of the movie at its conclusion, so too we get to walk out of this life at its conclusion. And yet we get to keep the experience for whatever purpose.

WW

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by turiya » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:56 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:53 am
I wonder if it's kind of why we like to go to movies depicting all manor of horrid events and conditions. Experience without so much of the risk
Could be... :) That and video games (especially the virtual reality headset variety!... Has anyone else here played one of those?... It's intense!)
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:32 am

turiya wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:16 am
Both of those lives are equally valuable, yes.
(Although the Mind recoils at that statement!.... "What the hell is the value of the life of a mass murderer??!!")

Well... from the "horrific" to the "beatific" (and everything in between), all life experiences are valuable because all are necessary to define one another. How could an experience be experienced if nothing different from that experience existed?

(But then there's the question: "What's the point of all this sampling of different experiences?"

Beats me! :wink: ... Maybe so that the Universe can come to know Itself?)
:D :D :D :D :D :D

And eventually, who are we to judge?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by turiya » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:15 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:32 am
And eventually, who are we to judge?
Exactly. :wink:
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by Speck » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:50 pm

I seem to recall Tolle saying something like "On one level this is true" and quoting:

"The true value of a human being can be found in the degree to which he has attained liberation from the self." -Albert Einstein

If I remember correctly (Can not seem to find the audio) Tolle added that on another level the "faculty" for liberation is inherent in all.

Maybe what "we" truly (cherish) value is what "we" will fight for? What will "we" fight when no enemies or "selfs" are perceived to begin a fight (Surrender)? How could that affect our perceived values?

The most accurate answer is I don't know.

Wish you well.

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by rachMiel » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:44 pm

How would you define a valuable life? Or what makes a life valuable?

I see not one, not two ... but three levels to answer this from. :P

On the ground floor level of conventional/consensual reality, a valuable life is just that: one that adds some kind of value to the individual, the collective, the planet, etc. Reduces suffering, spreads kindness and love, promotes awakening, creates and shares beauty, that kind of thing.

On the middle level of let's call it transcendent reality, I agree with turiya: Every life is equally valuable, just as the Buddha resides equally in a monk's and a murderer's heart. (Maybe even in the air molecules between them?)

On the top floor of ultimate reality, the question is moot since there is no "valuable life" or a "you" to define it, there just IS.

Interestingly, I posted a thread in another forum recently: "What matters?" To you, those around you, plants, animals, Earth. It seems like for a lot of people, after doing the spiritual thing for a long enough time, the question "Okay, but what really matters?" arises. It's a biggie.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:34 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:44 pm
On the top floor of ultimate reality, the question is moot since there is no "valuable life" or a "you" to define it, there just IS.
It's curious how one can look at this question of no-self. What I see on the 'Top floor' (isn't that an oxymoron?) in my best imagination is that on/in/at that Top Floor there is only You. It's where all 'yous' become the One. Of course, really, who can say with authority? Here in this form we make our best guess and speculate. In all the studies I've done of those who have glimpsed beyond this human experience however, no one has ever gotten to the Ultimate End/Beginning/Essence. There is always more.

Those contacted that reside there permanently say much the same. And in that more, there is always some sense of self. Yes, some reach a state of Infinite being, but self always returns. I wonder that that self-sense may be the greatest gift from Source.

WW

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by snowheight » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:25 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:35 am
How would you define a valuable life? Or what makes a life valuable?

We look around and see others in all manner of unique conditions, from rich to poor, from healthy to sick, from famous to unknown, from smart to not so much. Then of course, there is our own unique life conditions. What then, is the common denominator that makes any given life valuable? Or not?

WW
Value is always relative, although the relative comparison between Manson and whoever one might find saintly is an effective way to call this notion into question. A counter-comparison would be: who is more valuable, a doctor that performs abortions or a combat soldier? Manson is almost universally reviled not only because he kills, but because it would be uncommon to make any sort of sense of his motivation.

To answer the question directly, life is priceless, and no material merit can add any quantity to that infinity. In the relative terms of who I would like to give and take attention to and from, I value sanity.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by rachMiel » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:34 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:34 pm
I wonder that that self-sense may be the greatest gift from Source.
To me it's the ultimate miracle: the individual in the totality, the totality in the individual. A dynamic identity of apparent opposites. Or something like that ... ;-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: What Determines Value?

Post by turiya » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:19 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:34 pm
I wonder that that self-sense may be the greatest gift from Source.
rachMiel wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:34 am
To me it's the ultimate miracle: the individual in the totality, the totality in the individual. A dynamic identity of apparent opposites. Or something like that ...
I agree! :D

To me, the "self-sense" is kinda like a magical mask that allows entry into (and the experience of) the Masked Ball of Existence.

(Although, the more you identify with the mask, the more the elegant ball seems to turn into a hellish, frenetic mosh pit. lol... And then the great gift seems to turn into a great curse.)
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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