Role of the mind

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Dcdc
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Re: Role of the mind

Post by Dcdc » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:51 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:14 pm
Dcs wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:43 pm
Not all atheists are the "I believe in science" type or something like that, and I'm not the only atheist that is dedicated in non-dualism, presence, etc. There are monks that are atheists, for example.
It may be worthwhile to define what you mean by 'atheist'. Most of the rabid atheists I know are referring to the 'Old Man on the Throne' God that they believe doesn't exist. To that narrow definition I might be an atheist as well.

But there is a much larger view of life beyond this human experience that this type of atheist declines to consider. The Old Man on the Throne God is an easy target for dismissal. Life beyond the physical is not so easy to deny - at least not while honestly considering the available evidence.

WW
Yes, I agree with you. There are a lot of "types" of atheists. In fact, there are a lot of people/egos in general, hehehehe.

Well, it's difficult to talk about this in english, and, besides that, I just don't think that is to important to label this; my point was just to argue that it may be "intellectually dangerous" put things as "My point is that atheists are stuck in the mind", for example, because all the people and types of some "category" (that is also a form) rarely can be summarized in one sentence. There is a significant number of atheists that are interested in non-dualism, presence and so on, even atheists monks.

The problem is that our sampling size tends to be insignificant compared to the rest of the people.

But, again: I agree with you, there is a much larger view of life beyond this human experience.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Role of the mind

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:20 pm

Dcs wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:51 pm
"My point is that atheists are stuck in the mind"
I don't disagree with this. But that could also be said of the majority of 'religious' people as well. Anytime one's authority for truth comes from an external source, whether it be a scientific orthodoxy, or a religious one, it seems to be a belief based system of a mind stuck in ideology of some type.
But, again: I agree with you, there is a much larger view of life beyond this human experience.
Certainly this is my take. But even this, I suppose, could be considered a 'mental perspective' depending on its origin. It would seem wise then to constantly consider one's perspective and what actively supports it. Good stuff Dcs.

WW

Dcdc
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Re: Role of the mind

Post by Dcdc » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:05 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:20 pm
Dcs wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:51 pm
"My point is that atheists are stuck in the mind"
I don't disagree with this. But that could also be said of the majority of 'religious' people as well. Anytime one's authority for truth comes from an external source, whether it be a scientific orthodoxy, or a religious one, it seems to be a belief based system of a mind stuck in ideology of some type.

WW
Yes, you are right and I agree with you. In this specific characteristic, the only difference I think exists is that a lot of atheists don't claim to have/know the truth; and, because of that, a lot of them don't talk about how the world works and/or what is the world. As they simple don't know, they prefer to not talk about things that are not verifiable. I think that is reasonable; Budda said the same thing.

Atheism is not necessarily some kind of faith - or something like that - in science. In fact, a lot of them (especially non-dualists, hehehe) know that science is a model, as language as well, for example, and that models are creations (the number "Pi(π)" is a example of that; we need this kind of approximation and reductions to our systems). So, atheism is so larger than that; but it's also a form, a product of mind, a concept.

In the end, there are no concepts or "names"; we have created these all, hehehehe.

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turiya
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Re: Role of the mind

Post by turiya » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:05 pm

joe wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:29 am
On that third point, I don't think you are answering the question.
I think that the only true answer (or "counter-argument" to the materialist paradigm and all the theories based on it) has to come from the person's investigation into his/her own direct experience (...rather than coming from any thoughts/assumptions/theories).
joe wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:29 am
Evolutionary psychology and other human sciences are thought to exist outside human consciousness as objective reality. So those who subscribe to these sciences and their theories of the human condition use them rather than practice present moment awareness as a spiritual discipline.
Yes, it's kinda funny that they are thought (by the human mind) to exist outside the human mind.

Basically, all of "objective reality" is based on thought rather than direct experience. :D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Role of the mind

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:26 pm

Dcs wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:05 pm
In this specific characteristic, the only difference I think exists is that a lot of atheists don't claim to have/know the truth; and, because of that, a lot of them don't talk about how the world works and/or what is the world. As they simple don't know, they prefer to not talk about things that are not verifiable.
I think the type person you are describing here is not so much an atheist as an agnostic. It seems that many agnostics don't recognize the distinction. The difference being that atheists have a defined belief that there is no God, not that they don't know. (As stated earlier, they often refer their disbelief to the "Old Man on the Throne" God) Agnosticism as I see it is quite healthy so long as there's a willingness to honestly consider possibilities. The atheists I've met much prefer their religious mindset of materialist science. Other considerations tend to be more threatening than interesting.

WW

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turiya
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Re: Role of the mind

Post by turiya » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:58 am

Here's another video that (imo) greatly helps with the investigation into our direct experience:

https://youtu.be/qD6D5ocJQ4c
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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