Can anyone help me, please?

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Dcdc
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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Dcdc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 pm

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:42 pm

Unfortunately, I feel like I have triggered something in my brain that won't let go of me. At this point, I want my old life back, but I can't have it now. I get this voice for everything, questioning everything, telling me that nothing is real and that I have two brains. One which is evil, which has led me all through my life, one one that is good but basically does nothing.

But I get the impression that ET, other spiritualists and their followers DO want me to stop having feelings. For instance, if I watch comedy. This is something I would do on an evening. A little victory for myself, to give myself some enjoyment. The comics make fun of everything and everyone. Now I get a voice saying, do not watch this, because 1) it is all an illusion and not real 2) all these thoughts comedians have are a construct of their ego and therefore not funny 3) it is bad to feel the emotion of laughing.

I never really considered that I suffered before. Like I said, I never searched myself inwardly. I was content with who I was. The only thing that ever bothered me was the things I did in the past and of course my tinnitus. However, I could put my past aside for the most part and live comfortably enough.

I came to Tolle to break the habit of dwelling on my tinnitus and perhaps to see if I could 'let go' of my past actions. I have never had a problem with my character otherwise. Or the character of others, much. The only people that ever frustrated me is those who I thought had a huge ego and were living a life outside of their means. But even then, I would think, it makes no difference to me how other people live. If people are happy doing what they are doing, then all power to them, I can't change people and nor do I want to.

But what I find scary is that apparently, the person who I am, who I was content with, is not real. Do you understand how scary that is? Apparently, it is all a devious construct by my ego. I liked my life, I was comfortable. I recognised my failings and my imperfections, but I live with them, it's fine. I am who I am, I cannot change much.

I thought I was a kind person - apparently, I'm not, this is my ego.. sure being kind makes me feel better about myself
I thought I was a loving person - apparently, all my feelings of love for other people are fake and not real, an illusion. Sure I like to feel loved by others (this is bad???)
I enjoyed many things in life - movies, music, nature etc - apparently this is all an illusion and my other brain telling me what to do. Like I have been possessed all my life.
Hello again, my friend. :- )

You definitely understood wrong. Don't sabotage yourself with this conclusions and just try what we said.

Don't worry about stop laughing. I laugh and smile all the time, hehehehehehe. Oh, and I love music and comedy.

pabl692
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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Dcs wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 pm

Hello again, my friend. :- )

You definitely understood wrong. Don't sabotage yourself with this conclusions and just try what we said.

Don't worry about stop laughing. I laugh and smile all the time, hehehehehehe. Oh, and I love music and comedy.
This has seriously messed my head up. Please, please forgive me. I am not trying to be provocative, at all. My questions and concerns are genuine.

It's like I don't know who I am... that I've led a false life. Even though I thought I was just being me. I was content, and relatively happy. Now I should be content with being nothing and just being happy with existing. Everything is an illusion, nothing is real. My life is not real.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:32 pm

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm
It's like I don't know who I am... that I've led a false life. Even though I thought I was just being me. I was content, and relatively happy. Now I should be content with being nothing and just being happy with existing. Everything is an illusion, nothing is real. My life is not real.
You're not 'nothing'. You, your true self, is far more than that. What you are not is what you 'think' you are. Thought and analysis can be helpful, but it is not the best way to 'know' what you are. You know more of your 'self' when you are not thinking, but rather being aware through 'feeling' your being in quiet meditation.

If you go to the theater and see a scary movie, it can suck you in and frighten you. That's what it was designed for - an emotional entertainment ride. You went redily knowing it would challenge your emotions. But the context and story of the movie does not represent who and what you are. It's just an experience. The feelings are real, but the conditions and story are just a way to explore an idea.

Life in this human form is similar in that it is a temporary experience of the far larger consciousness that is your true nature. Being here is not random and it has valuable purpose. It is an opportunity to explore experience through this human expression. So explore. Get into life and have some fun, and learn what you can along the way about how feelings and emotions work. Sure, there is likely to be some pain when we think and act in certain ways. But that's not a bad thing. It's just another type of experience that one can learn from. What you are going through now is simply a result of how you are thinking about it.

There is no fault here. Life is not bad. Awakening is not bad. It just changes the context of how we view life. It's common to have an adjustment period. It's new to each of us as we step up to a new perspective on life. Yes, it can be quite disorienting for a time. It's okay. Explore. Actively seek inner guidance. Insight is the best teacher. Be patient and beware of the ego's habit of judging things based on its own fear. Ego is a human thought perspective. Awakening is to grow beyond it.

WW

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Dcdc » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:46 pm

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm
Dcs wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:54 pm

Hello again, my friend. :- )

You definitely understood wrong. Don't sabotage yourself with this conclusions and just try what we said.

Don't worry about stop laughing. I laugh and smile all the time, hehehehehehe. Oh, and I love music and comedy.
This has seriously messed my head up. Please, please forgive me. I am not trying to be provocative, at all. My questions and concerns are genuine.

It's like I don't know who I am... that I've led a false life. Even though I thought I was just being me. I was content, and relatively happy. Now I should be content with being nothing and just being happy with existing. Everything is an illusion, nothing is real. My life is not real.
Oh, don't worry, I don't think you are being provocative at all. I'll always do my best to help you : -)

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:14 pm

My hobbies and interests gave me an identity. I liked being that person, I had absolutely no issue with it and never desired to be anything else. Apart from say, a family man in the future. But these identities are false, illusions that are not me. So what do I have? Do I stop going to work? Just be happy staring into nothingness, because then I will have no thoughts and no ego? I absolutely promise I'm not being provocative, it's just how this voice in my head is telling me how I SHOULD live given what I have read and observed...
Hmm.... if that were totally true, when you began to read ET, and learned that the ego was a "false self," there would have been no attraction to that concept. And you would have put the book down and gone on with your happy life.

But, of course, you did keep reading and so forth. You say you "liked being that person, I had absolutely no issue with it..." You mean except for the OCD and thought vortex and poor sleep etc.???

But, yes, you came to this forum for help. (And thanks, WW for your splendid encouragement here.) Most of the comments here have been re-assuring. And they have discouraged you from your current interpretation of ET. Do remember that ET's basic assertion, that the egoic identity is not "all that you are" is a message to people who do not believe that. He paints a pretty dark picture of the ego to shake people up. Others are much more reserved about the "separate self" identity, and simply note that it is a significant restriction, a conditioned identity that masks a larger consciousness. Others (I've mentioned several) also note that after awakening, the "personal individual self" is a bit of a costume, worn for convenience in society.

You have not mentioned where you live. I know both conventional counselors and spiritual advisors in the UK (if that is your home), and elsewhere...please advise.

Your problem is with your interpretation of ET and your imagined concept of awakening. Striving for something that seems distasteful is foolish. So long as you persist in trying to" imagine what enlightenment is like" you will be both wrong and unhappy. All the teachers talk about the failure of words to define Self realization. And then, like many of us here, we go on to talk about it. If there is still some part of you for which awakening has charm, start a regular meditation practice, read other authors, and stop using ETs sword to attack your comfort zones. They will be "who you are" until they naturally fall aside, into the relative world background. And, by the way, every single atom in the universe and every single beam of light or energy has the capacity to trigger awakening in you. No one knows what experience will be your trigger. But, for sure, there will be a quiet element of loving grace that accompanies it.

pabl, you have a lot of issues - that is clear from a number of your posts. If dropping the entire concept of nonduality for a few months makes you feel better, then certainly do so. Set all the books aside, ignore this forum, continue to enjoy what you can from your life. There is a certain irony in dealing with the ego -- you need to reach a certain level of comfort with "who you are" (however you perceive that identity) before you can transcend it. Stabilizing yourself in your egoic identity to some base level seems to be important. (I'm speaking generally here, having talked to far more people than ET about this very universal subject. ET was suicidal. It is not a requirement to be that stressed to wake up!!) Conventional counseling is fine, if it helps you to understand the conditioned sources of your personality, and make some peace with that.

But do not let your imagined idea of enlightenment rule your future. You are well-educated, appear to have loving parents, and care about people. Trying to imagine an experience for which you have had only some fleeting glimpses is presumptuous. The mind cannot discover and own enlightenment. The only value of the critical mind in this process is to use it as a thorn to remove a thorn in the process of self-enquiry: "Who am I?" "Where am I?" etc.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

pabl692
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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:36 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:32 pm
pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm
It's like I don't know who I am... that I've led a false life. Even though I thought I was just being me. I was content, and relatively happy. Now I should be content with being nothing and just being happy with existing. Everything is an illusion, nothing is real. My life is not real.
You're not 'nothing'. You, your true self, is far more than that. What you are not is what you 'think' you are. Thought and analysis can be helpful, but it is not the best way to 'know' what you are. You know more of your 'self' when you are not thinking, but rather being aware through 'feeling' your being in quiet meditation.

If you go to the theater and see a scary movie, it can suck you in and frighten you. That's what it was designed for - an emotional entertainment ride. You went redily knowing it would challenge your emotions. But the context and story of the movie does not represent who and what you are. It's just an experience. The feelings are real, but the conditions and story are just a way to explore an idea.

Life in this human form is similar in that it is a temporary experience of the far larger consciousness that is your true nature. Being here is not random and it has valuable purpose. It is an opportunity to explore experience through this human expression. So explore. Get into life and have some fun, and learn what you can along the way about how feelings and emotions work. Sure, there is likely to be some pain when we think and act in certain ways. But that's not a bad thing. It's just another type of experience that one can learn from. What you are going through now is simply a result of how you are thinking about it.

There is no fault here. Life is not bad. Awakening is not bad. It just changes the context of how we view life. It's common to have an adjustment period. It's new to each of us as we step up to a new perspective on life. Yes, it can be quite disorienting for a time. It's okay. Explore. Actively seek inner guidance. Insight is the best teacher. Be patient and beware of the ego's habit of judging things based on its own fear. Ego is a human thought perspective. Awakening is to grow beyond it.

WW

Thank you for your response, but I just feel like this is all too much for me right now.

Sitting here now, I don't see how I can enjoy anything anymore. Everything sounds very abstract to me, and I don't think I understand it.

As I say, I read Tolle to try and stop the cycle of rumination about my tinnitus and also a few episodes in my past. Apart from those couple of things, I was largely fine. I didn't spend all my time ruminating on my past. Sure it popped into my mind daily, but some days I would brush it away and carry on. Really, I could go a long time without seriously thinking about what I did. Some days I would spend more time thinking about it. And focusing on the present is effective for me. In regards that I enjoy things more, like driving the car is a more immersive experience, and I notice more things.

But the ego talk has scared me. I don't think you understand how scared I am and what effect it has had on me. Like it is as if I supposed to be a human body, but with no mind. No thinking. Like I have 2 brains, so I've been possessed or I am possessed by something. That is SCARY.

Before all this, I had a lot of joy in my life. I loved going to work, because I see my colleagues/friends and we had fun. Also, I love seeing the kids at work, I like the mayhem and the challenge. Going to work gave me a purpose that I enjoyed. It wasn't EVERYTHING to me. I had other things too. I would have outtings with friend, go to the cinema, go shopping, go for walks in nature. I always had things to look forward to.

But apparently all these things are bad and not me. They're all an illusion.

Work: The happiness/identity I have felt from going to work is an illusion. It gave me comfort. Going to work has always helped my mind. I usually come home from work feeling much better, because I've seen people and interacted and been immersed in something.

So do I quit my job? Because all this time I was going to work, enjoying myself, thinking I was helping others, meeting people, learning things, is all an illusion and my ego. When the real me just wants to sit in the present?

Friends: Again, they're an illusion, they're not real, I don't need them, and if I find myself enjoying being around them, that is my ego trying to survive. I should be content with sitting in a room just in the now, alone. Also, my friends are not real because they are an ego. Does that make sense? So the people who I love, are not themselves. So they are basically human forms but not real. They are controlled by something almost alien. So who am I talking to? Do you have any idea how scary this is? Now this seed has been planted, can you understand how scary it might be?

Hobbies: All pointless and illusions. Leaving work I would be excited about coming home and doing some cooking and then watching a movie. But this is my ego talking. My real self would be happy just being present. So what is the point in anything? Youll just say enjoying the 'present'.

What is the point? "You can just enjoy the present". I'm not sure I want to. Because living like a vacant vegetable doesn't appeal to me, unfortunately. And no matter what I say, or what my concerns are, the answer I will always get is "because the present transcends everything, it is the ultimate joy". Well, I'm not convinced it is. I've lost ALL feeling. I feel numb, that everything around me isn't real. I don't feel alive at all. I feel half dead. My entire world has come crashing down, and I don't think it will be the same.

My anxiety is through the roof. I'm living in a fantasy land it seems. I have 2 brains, too, apparently. I can't eat, sleep, or do anything. I've just laid in bed all day thinking about all this stuff and looking for a way out. Which again, you'll say, just enjoy the present. I enjoyed my old life, much much more. It's ups and down, trials and tribulations.

I honestly wish I'd never read ET. I really do. It's like mindcontrol. I feel like I've been hypnotised. I might have to go to the hospital, this isn't good.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:53 pm

Sighclone wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:14 pm

Hmm.... if that were totally true, when you began to read ET, and learned that the ego was a "false self," there would have been no attraction to that concept. And you would have put the book down and gone on with your happy life.

But, of course, you did keep reading and so forth. You say you "liked being that person, I had absolutely no issue with it..." You mean except for the OCD and thought vortex and poor sleep etc.???

You have not mentioned where you live. I know both conventional counselors and spiritual advisors in the UK (if that is your home), and elsewhere...please advise.

Of course there was an attraction to that concept. I immediately started second guessing everything that I do. I always thought of myself pretty genuine and honest. I never considered that I wore a mask, or faked who I was. I never really considered that I was anything other than me, with all my failings and qualities. But then you read this book and I am told that I have an ego that I must get rid of. Now I am second guessing everything and everyone. And it makes me feel like nothing is real. If I feel like I love someone, is it me feeling that, or is it my evil 'ego'? So if I accept it is my ego, I feel lost. I have a girl in mind. I love her, I do. But apparently, I don't, my ego does. That destroys me.

ET makes me feel like I should live like a monk. My dad has read the power of now. He says living in the now has helped him and has talked about ego. But only this weekend he went and bought himself a new watch. And he told me that he would like to move house. So now I'm thinking my dad isn't real, he is an ego. Do you understand how awful that is?

I was mostly happy, yes. I would have the occasional bad day, but I would not say I was engaged in suffering every single day. I liked my life. I could never understand why I couldn't sleep better. I could go weeks feeling pretty happy with everything, and still sleep terribly.

I am in the UK, I live in Yorkshire.

My world is upside down. I can't even go back to before, because these thoughts won't stop now.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:38 pm

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:36 pm
I honestly wish I'd never read ET. I really do. It's like mindcontrol. I feel like I've been hypnotised. I might have to go to the hospital, this isn't good.
Tolle certainly didn't hypnotize you. Tolle's teachings reveal the hypnosis we've all been subjected to since our birth. And, as you and others have learned, that can be very disorienting and scary for a while. Understand, the egoic hypnosis isn't necessarily a bad thing, although it can be quite painful at times. One can also have a lot of fun through ego. There is still lots of interesting stuff available.

Anyway, if you are suffering because of what you've been exposed to, take a different route. Coming here and asking for help and pointers that you so easily discard, is likely to continue to cause you concern until you either go back, or go forward. It's the in between that's problematic. Most of us here have taken a step or two forward and have found the greater context of living quite enjoyable. But it's not necessarily for everyone. It can be a tough road in its own right at times.

There's nothing wrong with living as ego. It just brings a certain type of uncontrolled experience. The control of life, by the conscious being within, is given over to the thought-form identification - the human 'me', the ego. It's okay. It may not be time for coming out of the shell as yet. Maybe not in this lifetime. It's still okay. There is much to learn in a darkened room, just as there is much to learn in the light. It all goes toward the evolution of consciousness and being in the larger sense. There are many paths after all.

WW

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:05 pm

In his second or third of ten webinars with Oprah in 2009, ET mentioned that the ego is naturally in control until about age 29-30. Why, I don't know, but it sort of makes sense with the drive to procreate. So for you it's not effective or productive to explore awakening further at this time...and that is obvious to you!...so stop. ET is not wrong for older people, but he is wrong for you at this stage of your life. It's just not working for you, and other life strategies, more conventional ones, are.

Put down all the books, and make a note in your calendar to look at them in one year. There is no charm or appeal for you now, and the awkward search you are pursuing is causing stress. For today, with a normal, conventional, life, you are doing fine. Many people have led fine and rewarding lives without awakening. This entire topic is not mainstream, and despite all the books and retreats, and ETs big website, the vast majority of people aren't interested, or don't find that it "works for them." And there is no blame or shame in this. Someday when you are older, it may feel more natural. Or maybe not. Why beat yourself up with your take on this philosophy? Or, if you need to attack and second-guess yourself, using some tool, get some counseling on that behavior pattern.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:11 am

Guys, please don't think that I have gone out of my way to be provocative, or that I don't appreciate your comments. I know it can seem like I am being dismissive, but I am open-minded. Otherwise I wouldn't have read what I have read.

I am absolutely not judging you, or the way you live your lives. I can say with confidence that you both live much, much more peaceful lives than me. I totally get that. I'm not rubbishing what you say. I just don't know if it is for me.

When you read reviews of books and they say, "this book will change your life, I have never looked back", then naturally I am intrigued. I read it. And being 'in the now' is rewarding. It stops you thinking and I find I appreciate things more.

I just don't know how far you are meant to take the dissolution of the ego. And what I've read, both in books and online, is scary to me. But it like you are trapped.

I feel like to get rid of your ego, you end up with no personality. You are completely emotionless. And that is scary. But of course it is a trap, because if I say it's scary, you will it is just your ego clinging on. So I can't win. Why do I have to dissolve my personality if it hurts nobody? What is wrong with being an individual? I honestly don't understand.

Now it has me questioning everything I do. So I find no enjoyment and I find everything pointless. I have just seen some friends. I made a joke. I felt uncomfortable because my mind was now telling me, this is your ego, you are making a joke to try and project that you are a funny person and that people will like you. How can I live questioning everything I do?

Sorry, I know I'm going round in circles. But I honestly feel trapped. If I wanted to go back, I can't now.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 am

Pabl, I know there are lots of suggestions in this forum, and in the consciousness literature, toward dissolution of ego. I have a little different take. Feel free to read my posts. There are lots of them in many threads. I'm not one that advocates the path of killing ego.

My suggestion is to know ego for what it is and use it to your advantage. I think it is, except for a unique few, a fools errand to try and eradicate ego. Understand what we are talking about here. Ego is identification with a thought construct about what self is. It is developed from the time of our birth and is the vehicle through which we interact with the other elements of life.

What I suggest is not to kill it off, but to recognize it for what it is. And then to understand what your true nature is and view life from that larger perspective. To realize that you are not the car you drive is no reason to trash it and walk the rest of your life. Use it to your advantage. Let it take you places. But do not let it use you. Ego in control is the tail wagging the dog.

You are not a man, a woman, a clerk, or a baker. You are not tall, or short, or fat, or skinny. You are not angry, or scared, or smart or dumb. These are all elements in life that are identified with, by the conscious beings that we truly are, as components of ego. They are but tools of exploration of experience. See them as such and use them to explore the life that you have. Enjoy them, but don't get lost in them. You are beyond them and inclusive of them. But they don't define you unless you adopt them as such. Simply know the truth and enjoy the opportunities for exploration and experience they offer.

I guess one could argue that cessation of identification with thought constructs of self is ego dissolution. After all, it's not the thought construct that matters so much as the identification with it. So use the thought construct to explore life, and drop the identification with it. The best of both worlds.

WW

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by turiya » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:51 am

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:36 pm
And focusing on the present is effective for me. In regards that I enjoy things more, like driving the car is a more immersive experience, and I notice more things.
pabl692 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 am
And being 'in the now' is rewarding. It stops you thinking and I find I appreciate things more.
Ok, I'm confused. You say that when you are present/being "in the now", you enjoy and appreciate things more... but then you go on to say that you're afraid that without your ego, you would become an emotionless, humorless vegetable-zombie who can't enjoy having a job, friends, hobbies, etc.

But, when you are present/being "in the now", ego is no longer there... So, you have directly experienced being without your ego and seen that there is greater enjoyment and appreciation of things... therefore, that direct experience disproves the theory that without the ego, you become an emotionless, humorless vegetable-zombie. Right?
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:24 am

Pabl -
Why do I have to dissolve my personality if it hurts nobody? What is wrong with being an individual?
Guess what. You can't dissolve your personality. You also can't snap your fingers and awaken. And you can't not be an individual manifestation or expression. Awakening happens and then the perspective on ego occurs. Before awakening you are grinding away in your mind on not being an individual and dissolving your personality. You might as well spend hours and hours and hours on wondering what it would be like to fly. Just because there is an event that has happened to others that has changed their perspective does not mean that you should try to achieve it by thinking about it. Because every single one of those teachers will say unequivocally that the mind grinding away on concepts is not how it happens.

After awakening the "body-mind-personality" totally remains. Personalities change over time to a degree and awakening might have an impact on that direction or pace of change, a little bit.

Here is a snippet I wrote about ten years ago:

Absent a real sense of a private self, you are a terrified, alienated, “depersonalized” aimless unit of desperate, screaming agony. Do not let that happen. Cling to whatever shred of identity you have, however miserable it may be, and get help, perhaps accompanied by medication. Because “little you” is totally and unequivocally real until you have a broader perspective. And even then, “little you” is “still there.” Moreover, after you have recognized the background consciousness of Source, there is a risk of discarding your lynchpins to the relative world, your sense of self as an “identity anchor,” caught up in the transcendent bliss of Atman. They had to spoon-feed Ramana and brush off the bugs, for a while. It is not necessary to completely toss away your sense of a separate self, or ego, even if it has become trivial.

Somehow you have decided that it is your job to discard your only anchor to sanity, your personal sense of self. Why would you do that? Just because ET discovered that his "separate inside self" was not his absolute self does not mean that you should try to dismiss your current identity.

If you really want to awaken, it will take some dedicated practice, either yoga, chanting, or meditation, perhaps some individual tutoring with nondual spiritual teachers (there is a section on this forum discussing other teachers). Should you awaken at some point, you will inevitably comment on the Grace that arrived. You also need to make peace with your egoic self as it is today. Hating your ego actually strengthens it (You become the Great Ego Hater, which is another egoic identity.) "Who am I?" -- check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enqu ... _Maharshi)

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:52 am

turiya wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:51 am
pabl692 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:36 pm
And focusing on the present is effective for me. In regards that I enjoy things more, like driving the car is a more immersive experience, and I notice more things.
pabl692 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 am
And being 'in the now' is rewarding. It stops you thinking and I find I appreciate things more.
Ok, I'm confused. You say that when you are present/being "in the now", you enjoy and appreciate things more... but then you go on to say that you're afraid that without your ego, you would become an emotionless, humorless vegetable-zombie who can't enjoy having a job, friends, hobbies, etc.

But, when you are present/being "in the now", ego is no longer there... So, you have directly experienced being without your ego and seen that there is greater enjoyment and appreciation of things... therefore, that direct experience disproves the theory that without the ego, you become an emotionless, humorless vegetable-zombie. Right?
I'll try and explain succinctly.

The other day I forced myself to stay in the now. To focus on what was happening at that very moment. Not ruminate about the past etc.

I wanted to go buy a bird table for garden. So I got in the car and drove to a shop. All the time focusing on what I was doing, changing gear, the feel of the wheel, looking out the window etc.

I went in a pet store and was looking at fish. I observed the colours etc and I seemed quite at peace. I was enjoying not thinking about other stuff. I turned round and noticed the shop.had boxed up hundreds and hundreds of little crickets and grasshoppers in boxes, still alive. I watched them. They was struggling to get out. I saw them suffering and I felt terribly. I wanted to set them all free.

However, you would say that these feelings are not me, they are my ego. As ultimately, nothing is real. All emotions are a fabrication of the mind. So my love for animals is all false. Its just sent my anxiety through the roof.

But isn't the feeling of peace and joy that you might feel from being in the present therefore false, and ultimately, your ego?

If I see a girl and I think she is attractive, is this not real? It breaks my heart to think that there is a girl I thought I loved, who I would have died for, I never really did. It just freaks me out that apparently I have 2 minds. Really I don't 'love' anything. With feelings of attraction, isn't it just a biological evolutionary chemical reaction in my brain encouraging me to procreate? But you will say it isn't real.

If I accept all this, can't you see how scary it is? I can't eat or sleep or anything because I just think everything is an illusion now.

Ultimately, before I had feelings and I believed they were real. Whether sad, happy, love etc. Now I think that my feelings are not me and nothing is real. Everything is grey.

Can nobody appreciate how scary this is?

pabl692
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:27 am

Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:07 pm

If nothing is real, and nothing matters, why carry on?

I see what Tolle and others are saying. Nothing really matters. Education is pointless. Relationships are pointless. Emotions are pointless. I get it. Some people can live with this and feel this is freedom. Which I can also see how it is. But the last living part of my 'ego' says, then why live? If there is no point, what is stopping me just ending my life right now? And logically, as I'm sure some of you would think, the world will indeed continue turning, so why not end it? The pain and suffering that might bring to other people isn't real afterall, and one day it won't matter anyway. It doesn't matter now if I'm dead or alive, so why not be dead?

I get a thought, don't kill yourself, it's not the right thing to do. Who says?

Why do anything? Even then, I know you will say when you are free of ego, you don't have to do anything, you will be happy just being. How do I know this is happiness? I thought all emotions were constructs?

Some people on here say they reconnect with nature. Tolle likes to walk in nature. What's the point? Isn't that his ego? Who says nature is beautiful? Isn't that a label?

Sat here right now, I want to die. It is as simple as that.

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