In need of some serious help!!!

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SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Thu May 02, 2019 7:56 am

So can I ask this?

A therapist told me we have a brain and a mind. When the brain produces the thought for example your going to die your going to have a heart attack you can use your MIND with a calm response of no you’ve had medical tests which are clear.

Is this still fighting the ego with the ego because your responding to a thought with a thought?

Alicia
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Alicia » Thu May 02, 2019 12:39 pm

Your therapist is correct -

The brain is in charge of the intinctive 'fight or flight' response, which triggers fear and/or action in the face of a threat. It is this part of our physiology that we share with animals, insects etc and is concerned with survival.

The 'rational mind' can be viewed as a step forward in human evolution and this can sometimes be used to deprogamme the brain where is remains stuck in the 'fight or flight' trauma loop. This is the premise of CBT as I understand it.Change a thought 'I'm going to die' with a new thought 'No I won't because all the evidence says I'm healthy.' Obviously CBT helps in cases where the threat no longer exists, but the brain is reacting as though it is and producing fearful responses.

I think some people call these the lower mind and the higher mind.

The 'ego' as I believe Tolle sees it, and in many spiritual practices, takes all this to a whole new level. To keep it simple, CBT can be seen as limited as you merely swap one thought with another. This can keep you rooted in the same past patterns . Mindfulness based CBT is now popping up everywhere, and it involves witnessing the thoughts so you no longer identify with every thought that arises. In a sense you're taking the birds eye view of your thoughts rather than remaining caught up in them, which may not really get to the root of the problem.

I still have some confusion over the use of the term ego, because it is used in different ways by different people. Ego is basically the mind based construct of our identity. It is the thoughts that we identify with and use to create our sense of self. Tolle paints a negative view of the ego and this is because it's very nature is transient and separate and is concerned with keeping itself alive in a scary world. Therefore it is attracted to drama and things that boost its fragile sense of self (because really, the ego is an illusion, it's just a selection of chosen thoughts that we use to decide who we are). Not every thought forms our identity. But thoughts that are judgemental or critical towards self or others are ego-based because the ego judges, the witness does not.

I would also welcome more clarification on this issue because I know other teachers (Adayshanti I thnk) distingushes between ego and personality - the personality is the mode of expression in this world and is rooted at least in part in our physiology. I was born an introvert. But the ego develops as a way to defend itself and that is also a very natural thing. It is when we identify with it 'I am an addict' rather than seeing any emotion or state as a temporary experience. The ego holds onto itself through trapped/repressed emotions and solidified thought systems 'I am a terrible person' 'I am an angry person' (although obviously it is usually unconscious as the ego is unconscious). All aspects of our being need love in my view - the ego judges, the witness beyond our mind based constructs does not, it allows everything to be as it is. When we can recognise that every part of ourselves is trying to keep ourselves safe, however misguided this process often is, it can be let go of. This is the essence of spiritual practice, again as I view it.

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Thu May 02, 2019 2:52 pm

Wow thanks for that reply Alicia.

I have begun taking a step back from my thoughts my fearful thoughts and trying to see them for what they are. I’m reading the untethered soul and it is really resonating with me.

So my fearful thoughts I’m wondering are coming from my ego in order to protect itself aka survival because of my traumatic experience that happened years ago?

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Thu May 02, 2019 3:23 pm

SamiT wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:56 am
So can I ask this?

A therapist told me we have a brain and a mind. When the brain produces the thought for example your going to die your going to have a heart attack you can use your MIND with a calm response of no you’ve had medical tests which are clear.

Is this still fighting the ego with the ego because your responding to a thought with a thought?
It depends on the emotion behind it. Thought is a valuable tool that is inherent to our consciousness and being. How it gets used matters. Is it conscious and deliberate, or is it reactive and programed? What does it feel like? Does it free you from the fear? Or is it more of a counter argument simply painting over your true belief?

New age teachings have for decades encouraged liberal use of affirmations. They're rarely very effective however, because they're usually just words fighting deeply held concepts and beliefs. When nothing changes the result is often anger and frustration. More ego responses.

On the other hand, if a new thought, a new context, feels expansive and freeing by virtue of genuine recognition, then it's less of another ego construct and more of a shift in consciousness. Emotions are key. They are our spiritual guidance system and a true gift from our True Nature.

It's not so much black or white, but a scale and direction. Feeling angry is better than feeling defeated and depressed. Anger has power where depression is just debilitating. Feeling frustrated is better than feeling angry. Feeling hopeful is better than feeling frustrated. And the scale goes on toward upliftment and expansion. It's a path of sorts toward clarity and freedom from the ego's grip of fearful beliefs. We walk this path by the choices we make and the meanings we apply to the events and conditions of our life.

Changing our experience in life is a matter of changing our beliefs. We can more readily change our underlying beliefs by feeling our way through their underlying emotional charge. Simply know that a thought that feels better is truer and is the better choice to believe over one that generates more fear and concern. Know also that self-judgment is an ego tool born of the very fear you're wanting to overcome. Learn to recognize self-judgment at every turn and choose a thought, a perspective, that brings clarity to this ego process. Explore how it feels.

And also, learn how to let go of thoughts that you know are hurting your life experience. They're only as real as you believe them to be. Humor is a great elixir. Learn to laugh at the ego's foibles and see them as creation like a bad B movie.

WW

Alicia
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Alicia » Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm

The Untethered Soul is an amazing book. I'm sure you will find it enlightening.

WW explains it better than I can. I tend to get caught up in over-analysing, but the mind, body and emotions are all interconnected; they're part of us and at the same time there's witnessing it all. The more I remain in the place of witnessing, the better my life flows.

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Thu May 02, 2019 7:11 pm

Alicia wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:48 pm
The more I remain in the place of witnessing, the better my life flows.
So true. One can see a kind of dance to it. Gain a clear sense of the witness perspective - open, non-judgmental, curious. Once there is familiarity with this essential state, the events and conditions that come our way become more of an adventure in life to be explored for the things we may learn - about ourselves, about others, about growth and expansion. In and out of life experiences, dancing with conditions. Explore and absorb.

Again, I encourage you to learn to laugh. Life can be fun more often than we know. As I've said before, life is too important to be taken seriously.

WW

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Thu May 02, 2019 8:28 pm

Thank you for that. I need to be encouraged to laugh.

I find I am not consistent in anything a job, even little things like going to the gym, I do it full pelt for 2 weeks and give up. I have no discipline around anything.

I have had a very miserable last few years of my life. All down to taking my thoughts as truth and believing what they have told me and not having any awareness of consciousness whatsoever 😓

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Thu May 02, 2019 9:08 pm

SamiT wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:28 pm
I have had a very miserable last few years of my life. All down to taking my thoughts as truth and believing what they have told me and not having any awareness of consciousness whatsoever 😓
So, will you 'now' (Remember, this is what the Power of Now means.) make the genuine choice to change? To make this day (and every day) the only day that matters? Will you stop looking back at how your life has been, and focus on making this moment the best you can - and let the future unfold as it will?

Will you strive to let the past go and not judge yourself for seeming failures, or the outcome of any day as good or bad, but simply as a genuine opportunity to see things more clearly? And then to act with appreciation for everyday, in that day, as having value no matter the appearances?

The opportunity is 'now'. This now. It's always now, so there is ever present opportunity to refocus the direction of your thinking, your perspective, your worldview. You're going to do something in this now in any case. Will it be an unconscious choice from past programing that you do not challenge, or will you begin making conscious choices on how you will perceive and place meanings in your life that serve you and make your life more enjoyable? What will you chose?

WW

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Thu May 02, 2019 11:02 pm

Thanks WW your insight is wonderful and I'm very grateful for your patience and help.

Could you explain this sentence a little more about choosing a thought?
[Learn to recognize self-judgment at every turn and choose a thought, a perspective, that brings clarity to this ego process. Explore how it feels.

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 03, 2019 12:20 am

SamiT wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:02 pm
Could you explain this sentence a little more about choosing a thought?
Learn to recognize self-judgment at every turn and choose a thought, a perspective, that brings clarity to this ego process. Explore how it feels.
Recognizing self-judgment is to listen to the things we think/say to our self that is berating or denigrating. Some examples: "that was stupid of me", "I never learn", "I hate the way I feel", etc. There are endless variations that come up when we don't like what we did or the way we are. Recognize these 'self-judgments' when they arise - and they will. They are not bad or wrong, they just lead in a mental direction that causes us more pain. There are other choices.

Self-judgment is the application of a specifically negative meaning on our actions or thinking. When we recognize them for the debilitating proclamations that they are, we can choose a different statement with a different meaning and apply that. Example: "That was stupid of me". "Okay, well, that thought was just that old automatic program. Now I see it as an opportunity that can teach me something." Just the change in perspective, from one meaning (stupid) to another (old program), opens the door to more accurate and genuine clarity.

It matters less what you learn from it than that you open yourself to the opportunity to do so. You may get insight on a specific incident and you may not. But over time the constant opening the door to insight will bring more alignment to your True Nature and eventually bring results. Again, in time, familiarity with the open learning state will grow and begin to change your whole perspective on life, and your resulting experience. Patience and steadfastness here is a virtue that will be well rewarded.

I encourage you to constantly monitor your feelings and emotions for the guidance they offer. To the degree a thought or belief makes you feel better or worse is the guide to which is a better course of thinking. And do not judge these emotions as a litmus test for right or wrong. They are all gifts to help us through our life experience. If you were blind and a touched a hot stove, would you curse yourself as wrong for that pain? Or would you learn that there was danger in touching that place, making a note of how to avoid it in the future? Emotions are educational properties. That's always a good thing.

WW

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Fri May 03, 2019 9:26 am

So as I’m trying to take a step back and just observe my ego, shall I do the same with physical sensations?

Every sensation I get my mind perceives it as dangerous. Even if I’m just poorly with a sore throat.

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 03, 2019 3:22 pm

I'm not a doctor, and I can't feel your physical sensations. Each of us must make our own call. With that caveat, here's what I do. The body is a well designed self-healing mechanism. I trust it to do its work. Most all issues of physical pain and illness will take care of themselves. I may get annoyed, but I don't get concerned unless something persists or is new and unique - something without an identifiable cause. In other words I give my body and its healing systems the benefit of the doubt that it will take care of these issues.

One of my concerns is the danger of so many medications today. The pharmaceutical industry makes some amazing medications, but they are most all foreign agents to the body. There are trade offs. Have you listened to the side effects they list in their commercials? So for me, that makes it a risk/reward consideration. Are my physical concerns enough to warrant the risk of possible side effects of taking a medication? Remember also, these drug companies are businesses and have boards of directors and stock holders looking to make profits. Why do you think they advertise prescription drugs to the general public instead of to doctors who must prescribe them?

Again, the answer, for me, resides in persistence. Do my symptoms persist long enough to be of real concern? Almost always, they do not. Symptoms way more often than not subside. In addition to the basic logic of it, getting quiet, as Tolle and most every quality teacher encourages, allows for the alignment for insight to manifest in consciousness as to our physical well being. Fear distorts this potential insight and allows the ego mind to run wild with concern. Know the process.

WW

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Fri May 03, 2019 4:49 pm

Yes thanks WW.

I’ve had that many physical sensations over the years with this health anxiety and my mind ALWAYS convinced me it’s something sinister and every single time it has turned out to Be nothing.

One time I sat in the emergency room for 4 hours CONVINCED I was having a heart attack (im only 34) my mind convinced me that I was and it was absolutely nothing whatsoever.

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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 03, 2019 7:54 pm

SamiT, I encourage you to re-read this entire thread. Let it sink in. Feel it deeply. There is no need to create unnecessary suffering in yourself over fears conditioned into your subconscious. There are many good pointers here well worth spending some time with. It is on you to reset your focus and attention. Take advantage of what's here.

WW

SamiT
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Re: In need of some serious help!!!

Post by SamiT » Fri May 03, 2019 8:18 pm

Okay I will give it a shot. Thanks for all your help and I will.report back.

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