Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

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tchest77
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Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by tchest77 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:56 pm

I know the ego comes into play in order to control, but could this be purely based on hormones/neurotransmitters/nutrients (I’ll call these body chemicals for short)? I understand that both could occur in conjunction, however, is it possible for ego to not be present under the control of body chemicals, and your reactions be based purely off of those signals?

Consider this: having high levels of ghrelin can lead one to be so hungry that they binge eat; Adrenal glands release adrenaline, which could cause an innate reaction to stress; Having a dopamine or serotonin disorder could cause depression; Increased testosterone could cause an increased sex drive; Having nutrients entering the blood stream could cause increased mental focus.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of chemical interactions. All of these body chemicals cause one to react. These chemicals can cause a lack patience, a desire to fulfill, and may demand a reaction. One being rude to another, may not be ego at all, it could just be chemicals at that moment or maybe they are just fatigued.

I understand being present no matter what will improves ones ability to be aware of how they feel, but what if we’re misdiagnosing ego when it could be a simple change in nutrition or hormones?

Ego being complicated enough, now add the complexity of how the human body works. That person who is suffering will always struggle thinking the more they are present the more self awareness they will have, but a simple chemical diagnosis could improve the entire situation. This does go both ways, chemicals being in balance, then maybe ego is in control. How is one to know what the real cause of their issues are, considering there are so many complex chemicals in the human body?

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Webwanderer
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:53 pm

Here's my take on it. Ego is an identity belief system. Not so much simply a conscious belief system, but primarily a subconscious one. That said, energy follows thought and is creative by nature. So as you hold thoughts and focus attention (again mostly subconsciously), that thought focused life energy, causes reactions in chemical components within the brain and body, which reflects those beliefs.

As far as nutrition goes, the nutrition that matters most is the consciousness nutrition quality of the energy flowing into and through your life. Nothing feeds experience quite like the thoughts we hold. "I think, therefore I am". A little different take on the original meaning maybe, but accurate none the less.

WW

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:33 am

I know the ego comes into play in order to control, but could this be purely based on hormones/neurotransmitters/nutrients (I’ll call these body chemicals for short)? I understand that both could occur in conjunction, however, is it possible for ego to not be present under the control of body chemicals, and your reactions be based purely off of those signals?
Interesting thread tchest - Cause and effect always has multiple factors. The level of awareness of cause and effect determines if you are manifesting your experience consciously or not.

Biological impacts can have an impact on behaviour - but once one is aware of, and accepts response ability for the behaviour, only then can cause and effect be investigated and managed.

e.g. having high levels of sugar in your bloodstream can create unreasonableness (think rum drunk), low levels of sugar can create a sluggish brain. Having realised these impact though, one would seek to manage blood sugar levels, rather than have it manage your moods. So in physical senses yes, internal and external 'chemical' and neurological impacts can contribute to unhealthy behaviours.
How is one to know what the real cause of their issues are, considering there are so many complex chemicals in the human body?
I think for this part if cause and effects are physical or mental they can be investigated and managed in the physical.

If cause and effects are emotional responses to the physical or mental they can be investigated and managed by better understanding our emotional reaction and attachments.

I'm not sure what the 'diagnosing ego' is about though. Ego is not separate to us.

The difference is, ego is concerned about how something is, or how something will turn out. Consciousness sits with/in what is. When you can be with/in what is and be whole then the integrity of your being will be actively whole. This is in alignment with the greater consciousness, without (false thought) of separation or judging or partaking of the emotional reactions of good/bad - just is.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

tchest77
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by tchest77 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:27 pm

Thank Smiiley, good points!

Just wondering, if it is in fact a chemical issue that is out of balance, even if one is to be in awareness when this is impacting their thoughts, I could easily see that person having a difficult uncorrected life through this, considering if this pain subsides, and comes and goes as it does, then this person is under the impression that they are flawed by ego as opposed to a physical/chemical condition.

Recognizing at the times the body/mind is out of balance chemically, and one could sit with this and observe/feel their own suffering, without doing anything about but observing it until it subsides, and thinking this is the ego. Meanwhile they are wrong if it is not in fact ego, seems to be a detriment towards that persons health, furthering their own confusion of what is causing or creating their pain, and never really getting to the solution while just managing or observing what is occurring. Therefore, possibly taking this route could make them more ill, when in fact all they may need is a correction with their serotonin instead of forcing themselves to sit with their unbalanced chemical state.

I have great respect and appreciate for the power of now. I truly think it is the way to go, be here, be present, observe your thoughts instead of following them, enjoy life by finding out more about yourself by being more selfless; I am thankful I can even understand this stuff (I think I have an understanding but looking to just learn more while being open to being wrong), but it is changing me for the better.

In reference to whether one is in ego or actually in a real chemical imbalance, I'm on this path to not contradict or defend, or try to be right, ect (hello ego..not this time), I'm just concerned perhaps if there is a chemical imbalance, this could further escalate that person to continuously misinterpret what actually may or may not be, thereby affecting their ability to be present, and put attention on the wrong path to self awareness.

Thoughts are appreciated!

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:26 am

It's a bit tricky when we don't have examples (for me) but I'll scattergun thoughts and see if anything is relevant.

When one is creating unnecessary suffering for self and others, cause and effect are entangled. If ego is the cause the effect spirals at that level of awareness, making as ET says enemy, obstacle, or means to an end of - a person, thing or situation. It is an internal dialogue projecting to external focus. We can get stuck in that energy field and if it decreases personal pain or provides perceived gain e.g. being hero, victim, or ceo of the universe in our own mind, it will remain our path of choice.

It will also manifest the physical attributes to maintain itself - attract the experiences to continually reinforce it etc.

There is no doubt that chemical and past emotional attachments play a part in our behaviors. E.g. a person whose brain depicts sociopath tendencies has an inability to use oxytocin and experience empathy. But, not all of these become mass murderers. There are, with unconditional love experiences and acceptance, ways of re-cognising cause and effect and consciously factoring this into our understanding of our experiences. For both the person with the limitation and those around or in relation with them. Ego would just say there's nothing wrong with me, it's you (projection for the ego's protection).

Consciousness says 'something' happened, and explores all potentials without bias.
So, it very much depends on our individual - and each moment - awareness, capacity and willingness to let go the cloak of fear that is our ego, and explore the wider field of consciousness.

We all have, and we all relate with others, in every moment, across and within wide ranges of awareness, capacity and willingness. There is just a vast difference in our experiences when we are in aware states employing acceptance (not to be confused with justifying) at its core.

Then we can engage with balance for self and other in illuminating love energy rather than fear energy..... regardless of our limitations - because we accept and factor them in.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by DavidB » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:03 am

According to Jungian psychology, the Ego is the primary human personality, it has a key role in decision and temperament, is those characteristics with which we feel most confident or are most well developed.

Blaming Ego is a common new age misdiagnoses, as it isn't Ego that causes dysfunction but instead it is the shadow of the Ego or the unconscious personality, which Eckhart often refers to as the pain body, which causes dysfunction. More specifically though, the unconscious shadow or pain body, is the aspects of the personality that are undeveloped or very immature, which arise most often during times of stress, when the primary Ego personality is overwhelmed or lacks the characteristics to deal with the life situation effectively.

My feeling is that Ego blame may serve only to confuse, as it fails to provide specific contextual and practical information.

To be specific, Ego is those few parts of the human mind with which we have preference, are most strong, dominant or well developed. This dominance creates a bias which shifts strength away from other potential characteristics, those other characteristics are therefore consequently weak and undeveloped. It is these weaker characteristics which may become the shadow personality and can arise during times of stress, or situations which don't suit our strengths. Because they are weak and undeveloped, they tend to manifest as dysfunction.

Understanding our weaknesses therefore is a great place to focus some of our attention for spiritual development, instead of blaming the Ego, which serves only to weaken. In this way the pain body can become an ally on our path to wellness.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

tchest77
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by tchest77 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:50 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:26 am
It's a bit tricky when we don't have examples (for me) but I'll scattergun thoughts and see if anything is relevant.

When one is creating unnecessary suffering for self and others, cause and effect are entangled. If ego is the cause the effect spirals at that level of awareness, making as ET says enemy, obstacle, or means to an end of - a person, thing or situation. It is an internal dialogue projecting to external focus. We can get stuck in that energy field and if it decreases personal pain or provides perceived gain e.g. being hero, victim, or ceo of the universe in our own mind, it will remain our path of choice.

It will also manifest the physical attributes to maintain itself - attract the experiences to continually reinforce it etc.

There is no doubt that chemical and past emotional attachments play a part in our behaviors. E.g. a person whose brain depicts sociopath tendencies has an inability to use oxytocin and experience empathy. But, not all of these become mass murderers. There are, with unconditional love experiences and acceptance, ways of re-cognising cause and effect and consciously factoring this into our understanding of our experiences. For both the person with the limitation and those around or in relation with them. Ego would just say there's nothing wrong with me, it's you (projection for the ego's protection).

Consciousness says 'something' happened, and explores all potentials without bias.
So, it very much depends on our individual - and each moment - awareness, capacity and willingness to let go the cloak of fear that is our ego, and explore the wider field of consciousness.

We all have, and we all relate with others, in every moment, across and within wide ranges of awareness, capacity and willingness. There is just a vast difference in our experiences when we are in aware states employing acceptance (not to be confused with justifying) at its core.

Then we can engage with balance for self and other in illuminating love energy rather than fear energy..... regardless of our limitations - because we accept and factor them in.
So, I came back to this again to review for further insight. So basically, if our chemicals are out of balance then we can still be consciously aware of this once we are aware of what's happening. It is as these moments, not under the blind influence of our chemical unbalance, that we can see what's going on and have choice over what we are going to do about it. If we accept giving in to our unbalanced chemicals or quit trying to improve this state then we give in to our condition and allow it to rule over us, and consequently may also let out thoughts/emotions rule over us as well as we are giving up. But, in opposition, even if we consciously are aware this is occurring, and still make the conscious decision to not do anything about it, we could still make a conscious effort to not allow our egos to be in control. Am I on track here with seeing how ego and chemical imbalances may work together and separately?

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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri May 22, 2020 5:31 am

tchest said: So, I came back to this again to review for further insight. So basically, if our chemicals are out of balance then we can still be consciously aware of this once we are aware of what's happening. It is as these moments, not under the blind influence of our chemical unbalance, that we can see what's going on and have choice over what we are going to do about it.
I think so.
tchest said: If we accept giving in to our unbalanced chemicals or quit trying to improve this state then we give in to our condition and allow it to rule over us, and consequently may also let out thoughts/emotions rule over us as well as we are giving up.
Acknowledging an imbalance and doing what one can to modulate the impacts would be more wise (maybe). For this I'm thinking of say diabetes - you either modulate the impacts with medical interventions, or you create more suffering than is necessary by having out of control blood sugar levels leading to preventable long term health impacts and short term behaviour impacts. Accepting and doing what one reasonably can without making an enemy etc of it.
tchest said: But, in opposition, even if we consciously are aware this is occurring, and still make the conscious decision to not do anything about it, we could still make a conscious effort to not allow our egos to be in control.
I would suggest it depends on what the imbalance is, and what the impacts of the imbalance are, ...how they manifest. We may not have the capacity to hold onto the awareness if our sense are overwhelmed.

In the diabetes example, biological impacts of both high and low blood sugar levels have impacts on the capacity to think clearly. So if we remember awareness is one thing, capacity is another, and willingness in any given moment often relies on degrees of both awareness and capacity.
tchest said Am I on track here with seeing how ego and chemical imbalances may work together and separately?
Do you think you are? Have there been any different understandings?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

Stefan007
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by Stefan007 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:14 am

I like your idea

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:53 am

DavidB said:According to Jungian psychology, the Ego is the primary human personality, it has a key role in decision and temperament, is those characteristics with which we feel most confident or are most well developed.

Blaming Ego is a common new age misdiagnoses, as it isn't Ego that causes dysfunction but instead it is the shadow of the Ego or the unconscious personality, which Eckhart often refers to as the pain body, which causes dysfunction. More specifically though, the unconscious shadow or pain body, is the aspects of the personality that are undeveloped or very immature, which arise most often during times of stress, when the primary Ego personality is overwhelmed or lacks the characteristics to deal with the life situation effectively.

My feeling is that Ego blame may serve only to confuse, as it fails to provide specific contextual and practical information.

To be specific, Ego is those few parts of the human mind with which we have preference, are most strong, dominant or well developed. This dominance creates a bias which shifts strength away from other potential characteristics, those other characteristics are therefore consequently weak and undeveloped. It is these weaker characteristics which may become the shadow personality and can arise during times of stress, or situations which don't suit our strengths. Because they are weak and undeveloped, they tend to manifest as dysfunction.

Understanding our weaknesses therefore is a great place to focus some of our attention for spiritual development, instead of blaming the Ego, which serves only to weaken. In this way the pain body can become an ally on our path to wellness.

I came back to this topic and re-read this entry fresh DavidB. It speaks to the inherent nature of ego so beautifully. Thank you.

I was pondering a thing - a 'story' and perspectives on the story, and realised pretty much everything we do / think / say / create is by ET's defining (perspective shared) ego in action.
'Making enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a person, thing, or situation.'

For the most part I notice making enemy and obstacle arising but not before it occurs ;), and I was realising that as soon as we come back to our humanness, the very cells and fibres of our physicality are 'making means to an end' of a person (us), and every thought, deed, creation, experience, is inherently reliant on ego.

(inherent - existing in a thing as a permanent quality; congenital, inborn, ingrained, inherited, innate, native, natural, essential, fundamental, intrinsic.

Making enemy, or obstacle of the ego has visible and felt effects.

I haven't fully formed a thought / story about making 'means to an end' of the ego yet. Thoughts? Is there a difference, or is my awareness just under-developed?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Maybe it's not ego and just a misdiagnosis

Post by Enlightened2B » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:24 pm

Interesting thread.

I'm going to share some of my own tidbits I've learned from my own 4-5 years of doing trauma work, which I am still exploring. It's helped to understand how ego has formed and its relationship to the nervous system.

If you're interested tchest, in a further exploration of the ego and how it forms physiologically, I would highly recommend a good research in epi-genetics and polyvagal theory. Only if you are interested. You can google these terms.

Polyvagal theory was created by Stephen Porges, and it gives a wonderful explanation how our survival responses (fight/flight/freeze) develop early in life, based on our attachment environment with our caregivers (which begins in utero). In other words, babies need co-regulation of their nervous systems from their caregivers. Babies cannot self-regulate their own nervous systems as humans are wired for connection.

Hence, it's the care givers job to provide that safety, security, empathy and attunement to the baby; it's the care givers job to serve the role of God or Self, (our true nature is asleep when we first come into these bodies), so that the baby learns at an early age......my needs are being met, my cries for help are being met, and my emotional experience is being understood and mirrored by Mom and Dad. It's compassion and empathy which play a HUGE role in attunement.

Mom and Dad teach us how to be with very difficult emotions, and our nervous systems learn at an early age.....ahh, ok, I have the resiliency to handle this type of pain and that type of pain. And hence, I have the resiliency to go through life and handle challenges.

So, if we get that early in life, we develop secure attachment, and our nervous systems are generally regulated and more wired for connection and and embrace of the world knowing we are safe, secure and we are ok.

However, most people do not get that, especially in the Western world. No fault of the parents, but simply a matter of ego's raising other ego's.

Hence, if there was mis-attunement, even starting in utero, or our caregivers simply could not provide to us what we needed in the way we needed it as small children, our nervous systems learn to self soothe on their own with coping mechanisms, and we will develop insecure attachment patterns, and our nervous systems learn to form coping mechanisms at an early age to avoid feeling the deep emotional pain that was not able to be held and met by our parents. Because we never learned at an early age how to actually BE with the challenging emotional stuff. So, our nervous systems gets stuck in fight/flight/freeze patterns.

Then we develop beliefs about ourselves as a result, and such which form a "false personality".....a separate sense of self, which ultimately is not real. It's a protective personality. Some protective personalities are stronger than others....depending on our up bringing. So, our nervous systems develop a protective identity around the fight/flight/freeze patterns which we call.....the ego or the separate sense of self.

However, even after awakening, there is STILL a sense of personality that is here. As long as we live in a body, there will always be a personality. It's how Spirit is expressing itself via a human avenue. The question is where is the personality being run by? The old survival patterns.....or That which is Aware (your true nature) and now has a choice, which reality it would like to wire/program into this human expression?

It's more a matter of guiding the personality to take on lighter, more playful, creative roles, as opposed to what we usually think of as the ego, which is this "paranoid, fearful sense of self".

And, in addition, epi-genetics play a huge role, as does ancestral trauma which gets passed down. Some of us have different genetic make up that potentially sets us up to be more wired for stress and sensitivity early in life. But these genes only get turned on when there is.......stress in the environment.

Point being chemicals and nutrients undoubetdly play a role in the physiological response to life. But, there is something that sets off that chemical response in the nervous system in the first place. We didn't have a choice as babies when our ego personalities first formed. But, we have a choice now.

And as far as I see it, personalities and our mind/body is what I call "ego"......it's our human navigational tool while here in body.

It's when we as "Our True Nature" (call that whatever you'd like....Pure Consciousness, Awareness, Being, Self, etc etc) identify solely with the mind/body, and hence our nervous systems then start protecting that "false sense of self'.

Hence, you can't get rid of ego, nor would you want to.

But, you can retrain the nervous system by bringing in qualities of our true nature, to see that......it no longer needs to protect the identity it believed we were at an early age. This in effect changes the chemical and nutritional processes of the body.

In other words, Consciousness comes first.

Of course supplementing or working with a practitioner can of course be a wonderful complement for the nutritional part. But, I don't personally believe it's the root.

And of course, this is just my take, and my own experience in learning about this stuff. Feel free to dis-regard or ignore anything that does not serve or resonate.

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