I have a question.....

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SamiT
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I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:20 pm

Ive been thinking (which is never a good sign)

If there is no separate mind, and its only a 'belief' in a separate mind then who is it who beleives in the separate mind?

I have a lot of self attacking thoughts.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks

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Webwanderer
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:15 pm

What separate mind are you referring to?

WW

SamiT
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:33 pm

The separate mind where all my thoughts are coming from. They must be coming from somewhere and something must be believing in those thoughts.

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eputkonen
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by eputkonen » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:50 pm

Thoughts arise due to the brain, but it is also possible to have no thoughts arise. When no thoughts arise...there is no idea of a "separate mind". When no thoughts arise...there are no thoughts of belief or disbelief.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
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SamiT
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:58 pm

I’m confused....sorry for asking questions.

I’m reading a new earth and it says “every complaint is a little story the mind makes up that you completely believe in”

So who is the YOU that completely believes in these thoughts?

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Re: I have a question.....

Post by runstrails » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:48 pm

Hi Samit,
Good question and a critical one!

The 'you' is typically the ego, which works in combination with the intellect, memory and emotions (all arising as thoughts in the mind).

To whom do they appear? They appear to reflected consciousness (basically you can think of it as the basic person (jiva) who becomes sentient when illuminated by pure consciousness).

All thoughts, perceptions, emotions, decisions, memories appear to this reflected consciousness.

However, the substratum and awareness of this jiva (reflected consciousness) is pure consciousness itself (atma). And with self-knowledge the intellect places the "I" correctly on the atma as opposed to the body/mind. You can think of it as a bucket filled with water in which the water is reflecting the sun. The water is the reflected consciousness which is illuminated only because of the sun. The ripples in the water are the movement of the ego, intellect, memory and emotions.

However, this knowledge will not help your self-judgement and anguish. For that, you need to be introduced to Ishwara (or I supposed we could say 'God'--even though God is a loaded term in the west). Ishwara is the intelligent order of the the manifested universe. And everything that happens within the universe (from the planets moving in orbits to your own perfect physiology reflects the intelligence behind the universe). Nothing can be outside the order of the universe. This means that YOU are not separate from Ishwara/God, but that you are part of Ishwara. You are not the limited, isolated Samit that you think you are, you are connected (and are an integral part) of this intelligent order or Ishwara/God.

Ishwara is infalliable. That is, the universe is perfect (or there would be no gravity, or sun or oxygen). So if Ishwara is infalliable and you are part of Ishwara, then you too are infalliable, my friend. All your hurt, regret, anger, frustration is part of the intelligent order of the universe. You need to see this clearly. Then you need to "let go and let Ishwara be". That is, you need to "let go and let God". None of your past decisions were mistakes (they can't be because you (as part of Iswara) are infalliable). See this and let go of the hurt, the regret, the pain.

Hope this helps. I wish you well on your journey.

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eputkonen
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by eputkonen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:09 am

YOU is also a little story the mind makes up.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
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Webwanderer
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:21 am

SamiT wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:58 pm
I’m reading a new earth and it says “every complaint is a little story the mind makes up that you completely believe in”

So who is the YOU that completely believes in these thoughts?
There is only one actual 'you'. That you always feels like self. Consider, the you that exists in your dreams is the same you that exists when awake. The difference is that in the dream you accept the dreamscape as reality where as once the dream is released the awakened perspective returns and there is an larger, more substantive, perspective on reality. It's still the same you, it's just living in a different mental/perspective context.

There is more. There are many more layers to life and being. And just as there is the experience of living in the dream world, and there is the broader experience of living in this 'awakened' world (relative to the dream world), and there are yet higher, vastly 'more awakened' worlds to experience. The same you however, the same fundamental sense of self and being, exists in all worlds. There is only a difference in context based on knowledge limitations stored in the mind for each of these layers of experience.

Consider, what do you know of this physical world when you are dreaming? Precious little I would guess as is the case for most of us. In essence, you are yet in a kind of dream while in this physical world. There is simply a different quality and potential to it, and still there is yet a much larger reality beyond this in which one may awaken to. The thing to remember is that in all these worlds there is the same you, the same fundamental sense of self. You just see life in a different context.

The distinction is the extent of awakening that one lives in in any given moment. Our sense of self may expand or contract depending on the context we live through and the things we believe about life. Belief shapes experience to a very large degree. And our fears are reflective of our beliefs.

Tolle's statement above completely acknowledges the you in all of us. Our concerns are the stories we tell our selves. The you is real and is eternal. The stories are temporary adventures in experience. Some fun. Some not so much. But whatever the story, we are the author, the director, and the staring role. The wise do their best to enjoy the show.

WW

SamiT
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:00 pm

So i am the creator of all my own misery and fear?

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Re: I have a question.....

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:24 pm

So i am the creator of all my own misery and fear?
Pretty much. Not that you create what others do, but you do create your responses to life conditions and interactions that sometimes manifest as fear and misery. Other responses create different, more preferred experiences. Our direct experience helps us understand how all this works. Most of the fundamental material for our responses is adopted and stored subconsciously over the coarse of our lives and exists as our belief systems.

There is nothing wrong in the larger sense with any of this. It's a kind of human Petri dish that we create and live in in which we figure out how things (meaning energies) work. It's really a great opportunity albeit often challenging. How energy flows and creates different outcomes depends on the nature of the underlying energy vibrations. The exploration that is this human life is designed for that purpose.

WW

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eputkonen
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by eputkonen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:03 am

SamiT wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:00 pm
So i am the creator of all my own misery and fear?
Yes. Often unconsciously...and based upon learned beliefs, concepts, and habits.
Ignorance really. For we would only makes ourselves miserable out of ignorance. No one hurts themselves on purpose unless they are mentally unwell.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
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SamiT
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:31 pm

I’m so miserable and don’t know how to get out of it.

I live in fear, fear of what’s going to happen to me today or in the future. It’s awful. It’s like I’m waiting to just drop dead and I’m running around trying to prevent that happening.

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eputkonen
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by eputkonen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:29 pm

This fear and worry very likely did not exist when you were five years old. So what is the origin of this fear? When did it start? When was it first felt? How did it come about? Understanding is needed. To realize the source, it helps to fully embrace and experience the fear...feel where it resides in the body...and then inquire about where it comes from and what is the origin. It is much more difficult realizing the source if you are avoiding or trying not to feel the fear. Really sit in it...and delve into it.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: I have a question.....

Post by runstrails » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:38 pm

SamiT,
I would suggest talking to a doctor about getting on an anti-anxiety medication. Most of them have very few side effects and the benefits are worth it. Once your anxiety is better, then your mind will be more ready for self-knowledge. Best wishes.rt

SamiT
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Re: I have a question.....

Post by SamiT » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:18 pm

Thanks but I’ve tried multiple anti anxiety medications and the last one 3 months ago made me suicidal and it was a bad experience.

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