House of cards

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
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din
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Post by din » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:42 am

Hi Phil,
I'm not denying the validity of what you're saying, only pointing out that it's practical value for the overwhelming majority of suffering human beings is extremely limited.
I'm really beginning to see how you function here.

The mind is hyjacking your experience. It is dominating you.

Instead of seeing how this teaching applies to YOU, you would rather argue that it is useless to the majority of people because of blah, blah, blah...

That's a safe way to play it. You don't have to get too involved. You don't have to commit.

You don't have to lose control.

There's no need to surrender if the teaching is not really practical and good.

Phil, the only thing that really matters here is YOU. Dive into yourself and do the work.
:)

phil
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Post by phil » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:14 pm

din wrote:The mind is hyjacking your experience. It is dominating you.
Oh, c'mon my friend, we've covered this a thousand and one times. For crying out loud, give it up already.

This is the standard nowbie debating tactic deployed any time someone says something that explores beyond the Tolle sanctioned group consensus.

Please observe how you never claim "mind domination" so long as my points agree with yours.

Once again, please observe, what is Tolle himself doing?

Is he writing post after post after post about Eckhart Tolle's personal situation?

Or is his life directed at the larger picture beyond "he and his situation"?

Forget about me, learn this from the actions of the authority figure you respect. Do as he does. Follow in his footsteps.

You want to be a teacher Din, but the thing is, you only want students who will help you keep your personal perspective at the center of the universe.
din wrote:There's no need to surrender if the teaching is not really practical and good.
Like I keep telling you Din, I am surrendering the need to improve. I am surrendering the endless focus on me and my situation. I am accepting where I am NOW, instead of going with you on a glorious future trip.
din wrote:Phil, the only thing that really matters here is YOU. Dive into yourself and do the work.
Ah, the only thing that matters here is me. You just explained the popularity of this branch of now philosophy.

Me, my situation, very important, the only thing that matters!

This isn't the solution my friend, it's the problem.

Thanks for the dialogue Din, I hope somebody other than you and me will find it entertaining at the least.

phil
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Post by phil » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:31 pm

There's no need to surrender if the teaching is not really practical and good.
Silence is practical and good.

The teachings are not silence.

The dialogue we are having is a perfect example of why the teachings, in their present elaborate form, are more of an obstacle than an aid to silence.

Just as you and I are doing, students everywhere will endlessly analyze and argue over ANY teachings.

If we strip away the teachings, there's nothing left but the experience itself.

Which we will either enter, or not.

Very simple, as it should be.

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din
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Post by din » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:11 pm

phil wrote:
There's no need to surrender if the teaching is not really practical and good.
Silence is practical and good.

The teachings are not silence.

The dialogue we are having is a perfect example of why the teachings, in their present elaborate form, are more of an obstacle than an aid to silence.

Just as you and I are doing, students everywhere will endlessly analyze and argue over ANY teachings.

If we strip away the teachings, there's nothing left but the experience itself.

Which we will either enter, or not.

Very simple, as it should be.
And all of "this" is simply happening, can we really hold any "position" with regard to it?

Is there really any need to "know" what is going on?

Or can we just relax and just allow it to be.
:)

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Post by phil » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:37 am

din wrote:And all of "this" is simply happening, can we really hold any "position" with regard to it?
Sure we can. You just did. The sentence above is a position.

Just got home from a wonderful day with my wife on a large prairie filled with birds. Thought of our conversation here as hundreds of white pelicans circled overhead.

Yes, a thought, that's your opening, go for it! :-)

Image

Would it be reasonable to guess that most readers here have some portal or another they use to experience silence?

We have the portal. We use it or we don't.

What else is needed?

Do portals really require thousands of pages of elaborate esoteric teachings?

Or are a few simple practical instructions sufficient?

If we set aside the teachings in order to serve all those they will alienate and confuse (the majority of all human beings), are we really giving up anything important?

We still have our portal, and it's still our choice of when to use it.

Is it access to silence that we want? We have it.

What's the problem?

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:34 am

Is it access to silence that we want? We have it.

What's the problem?
Do we really need access to silence?

Or is silence all there really is?

Aren't we just playing a game here?

Of being identified with the experiences of a separate individual?

Isn't that all just appearance?

What is it I really want???
:)

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:53 am

Tony Parsons:

But the idea of "you" is being reinforced all the time. The emphasis is that there is someone there; everything in the world goes on emphasizing that there is someone there. The pretence of "me" goes on being reinforced even in the search for enlightenment, because what a so-called master will say to you is, "I have become enlightened - I am an enlightened person and can become an enlightened person". You - this pretend "you"! It's a total utter fallacy because awakening is the realisation that there is no one - it's as simple as that. It's totally and utterly simple, and also very difficult.

Awakening is the realisation that all that's been happening - the whole idea of there being a "me" - is a pretence. You're actually pretending to sit there and look at me. You 're pretending that you're sitting there looking at me and trying to get something.
:)

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Post by phil » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:47 pm

Someday we may get around to exploring how a discussion of silence might be shared with those outside the new age community. Probably not, but maybe.

Until then, we can keep exploring our attachment to our own particular set of beliefs. That's cool.

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:41 pm

phil wrote:Someday we may get around to exploring how a discussion of silence might be shared with those outside the new age community. Probably not, but maybe.

Until then, we can keep exploring our attachment to our own particular set of beliefs. That's cool.
Like the belief that the outer (world) is important in any way, shape, or form.

Or that the outer doesn't matter at all.

Or that the inner is somehow separate from the outer.

Or the belief that something could be learned that will change something and bring about freedom or enlightenment.

Can anything be known at all???
:)

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:07 pm

Phil wrote:

Once again, please observe, what is Tolle himself doing?

Is he writing post after post after post about Eckhart Tolle's personal situation?

Or is his life directed at the larger picture beyond "he and his situation"?

Forget about me, learn this from the actions of the authority figure you respect. Do as he does. Follow in his footsteps.
Eckhart is not an authority figure to me.

He is a simple soul with a simple message.

Eckhart has said in one of this talks, "I am a master, and so are you".

We are all One.

If there is an authority figure in my life it would be the unfolding present moment, that's all there is.

That is the bottom line.

The isness of the present moment. (whatever that means)
:)

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Post by phil » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:12 pm

din wrote:[Can anything be known at all???
Dunno Din, I guess I don't get why you are asking this question while at the same time posting opinion after opinion on a couple of different now boards.
Like the belief that the outer (world) is important in any way, shape, or form.

Or that the outer doesn't matter at all.

Or that the inner is somehow separate from the outer.

Or the belief that something could be learned that will change something and bring about freedom or enlightenment.
I don't mean to disrespect you, or your perspectives, and clearly you should share whatever you are inspired to share. I enjoy conversing with you.

Just pointing to the comments above as just one example of the kind of talk that will brand the art of silence as gibberish for most of the people on earth.

I'm not saying it IS gibberish, just that by publicly pursuing our enjoyment of clever and exotic paradoxical pronouncements, we may be closing more minds than we're opening.

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:14 pm

Phil wrote:
You want to be a teacher Din, but the thing is, you only want students who will help you keep your personal perspective at the center of the universe.
My personal perspective is constantly being destroyed/dissolved.

From a personal perspective you could say I'm totally lost, and comfortable with that.

Eckhart would describe this as "embracing not-knowing".

As for what I want, there is only thing I want and I have already told you what that is.

There's no room for compromise here on that point.
:)

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Phil wrote:
Just pointing to the comments above as just one example of the kind of talk that will brand the art of silence as gibberish for most of the people on earth.
It's interesting how you assume that a label that you have would also be shared by all other people.

The now is made up entirely and only of you Phil.

So why are you so interested in other people, in illusions in your mind.
:)

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Post by phil » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:49 pm

I dunno Din, why is Tolle so interested in other people that he spends much of his life writing, speaking, traveling, etc. Is Tolle just interested in illusions in his mind?

OK Din, you've made your point clearly that you're not interested in these other folks beyond the world of those who might find new age speak fascinating.

And so have others of the forum by not joining us here.

I'm agreeable to just letting it go. Seems silly to continue.

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din
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Post by din » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:14 pm

phil wrote:I dunno Din, why is Tolle so interested in other people that he spends much of his life writing, speaking, traveling, etc. Is Tolle just interested in illusions in his mind?
Perhaps there is no "why" to what is.

Perhaps the unfolding just is.

To want to know why, is to engage in thought.
OK Din, you've made your point clearly that you're not interested in these other folks beyond the world of those who might find new age speak fascinating.

And so have others of the forum by not joining us here.
Why is that important to you that others have not joined in the discussion? What beliefs/expectations have not been met?
I'm agreeable to just letting it go. Seems silly to continue.
Letting it go is always a good idea. :lol:
:)

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