Scientology

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Lozza
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Scientology

Post by Lozza » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:28 am

Does anybody know anything about scientology?. I know Tom Cruise & John Travola are members. Why does it appeal to movie stars and famous people?. Is there anything to it? Why is it so secretive???? I hear about it all the time, but I don't have any idea what it is.

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kiki
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Post by kiki » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:31 pm

There are lots of things on the net showing the abuse and intimidation tactics it uses against former members and those who attempt to publicly debunk its ideas and practices. There is an effort to attract "stars" in order to give it a better public image, and those stars have a separate center (in LA) to cater to them, and as a result they aren't witnesses to the abuse that others are faced with.

When one "signs up" you sign a contract which says you agree to follow its policies for a billion years - that's right, a billion. All of your life's problems are recorded by your "auditor", all of your most intimate fears and foibles, which then can be held over your head should you decide to leave. Check out youtube if you want a taste of what it's like to get on their wrong side. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y

The reason for bringing these fears up is to rid them from you and make you "clear". The cause of these fears which hold you back come from these ancient entities which were stranded on Earth 75 million years ago following a galactic war. Truly bizarre stuff.

L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, was a science fiction writer. One of his teachers declared once that if someone wanted to make a lot of money all they had to do was create their own religion. Hubbard took that idea to heart and ran with it - that pretty much says it all.

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Good job

Post by Goldenflutist » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:58 pm

Thanks Kiki for the info. and video link. Quite entertaining on the scary side. I sure hope no one from Eckhart's camp allows themselves to be filmed acting like a jackass.
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Post by CFSLos Angeles » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:33 am

Wow, this video of the Scientologist "confronting" the guy with the video camera is a powerful/scary example of the "pain body" in all its glory. Check out the look in the three men's eyes who are surrounding him/attacking him with words and a threatening presence... if it looks as if they are "possessed" its because they are.

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. Many years ago when I was 18-19 yrs old I was very lost/searching for the "meaning of it all" when the guy who lived across the street from me (and who was a drummer for a band called "Tower of Power") invited me to one of his weekly Bible study meetings.

Well, to make a long story short, I ended up joing the group, which was called "The Way." I had no idea it was a christian cult and was going to go live on their commune in Ohio when my father freaked out and had literature/newspaper articles mailed to me from all over the country saying that this group, led by its charismatic leader Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille, was indeed a cult.

Somehow after reading the material I came to my senses, realized that they were not what I thought they were and dropped out immediately. Needless to say, they were not too pleased with me. However, I knew by their hostile reaction that I had made the right decision.

Anyway, a women friend of my father told me that before I had dropped out, when she tried to talk to me about it I had this strange look on my face. But now that I had broken away, I looked "normal" again.

Yes, well that strange look she saw in me (and that I recognize on the three scientologist in the video) is when the pain body has completely taken over and you assume a "defensive mental position" that refuses to believe anything anyone tells you that is not "a believer." Indeed, everybody else is simply "the devil" and thus "the enemy."

It's really a good/frightening example of when Eckhart talks about how a group pain body can often be more powerful/instense than an individual pain body.

People who haven't gotten in touch with their true essence, their unlimited pure conscious-awareness, continue to search outside themselves for "the answers." And even if it means joining up with a group whose founder is a sciencefiction writer like L. Ron Hubbard, and who concocted the whole thing, at least on a "mind" level they feel like they have found something that seems to explain the unexplainable, even if when you hold it up to the light it falls apart.

Thank you Kiki for the video link as it was quite amazing to see the whole drama being played out right there before your eyes.

-Michael

Lozza
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Post by Lozza » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:09 am

I did have a look on the web about scientology, it really didn't tell me too much, there were those for it and those against it. What did tell me a lot was those three guys "what did they have to hide" and CFS was right they did seem to have a vacant look to their eyes, I suppose that is what happens when you become indoctrinated into an idology. Thanks Kiki for the heads up

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Post by kiki » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:25 pm

Here is the website of the guy who did the video. It seems that lying to others' faces has become standard operating procedure for this organization, and attacking the attacker is a tactic they have honed to perfection.

One of the videos on Xenutv is the South Park episode that skewered Scientology to the point that pressure was put to bear that prevented showing it again on public airways. One of the character voices of the program is Isaac Hayes, who is a Scientologist. He had no compunction about doing the same kind of debunking of other religions but when it came time for Scientology to be highlighted he quit the show.

If you aren't familiar with South Park be warned: there is a lot of crude, vulgar language and disgusting visuals on this cartoon for adults.

http://www.xenutv.com/index.html

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Post by aanwezigheid » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:02 pm

Scary people on the video of youtube...

"Tell me your crimes Mark", "Spit it out", .... and so on...

They are really defending themselves, they feel like their own identity is hurt, because why else they followed the interviewer afterwards? You can really see the agression in their eyes and I must admit that I couldn't really stand it.

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Post by eseward » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:53 pm

aanwezigheid wrote:They are really defending themselves, they feel like their own identity is hurt
Totally agree, aanwezigheid. The perils of identification. :)

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JD
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Post by JD » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:09 pm

BBC reporter, John Sweeney's Panorama programme, Scientology And Me, is well worth watching.

Sweeney became so frustrated at the Scientologists' intimidatory tactics during the making of the programme that he finally lost it big time.

Clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxqR5NPhtLI

Aftermath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU0Vh-laTDY
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 03,00.html

A Journalist at Panorama, the BBC's flagship current affairs series, has been reprimanded for losing his temper and screaming with rage during the making of an investigation into the Church of Scientology.

John Sweeney has apologised for the outburst against a scientologist which was filmed and then put on the video-sharing website YouTube, prompting criticism of the corporation. The BBC held an internal inquiry but said Sweeney had not breached any guidelines...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6650545.stm

lightdancing
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Post by lightdancing » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:29 am

Thanks for the links, all.

I was a member for a little while. My previous gentle-soul of a boyfriend had lost a sense of direction. And Scientology came a'knocking. He seemed to really like the group once he checked it out. After awhile, it absorbed most of his time. Eventually, I figured I would check it out to see if I could share it with him or I was out of the relationship because it virtually become his whole life.

It wasn't for me. I remember how some of Ron Hubbard's materials promoted independent thinking. And I noticed that it seemed that some people appeared to echo "the party line", rather than do their own thinking.

I didn't complete any of the programs they suggested or my boyfriend set up for me because the unconsciousness in me got triggered in a way that I have never experienced before. After 2 sessions, it was impossible to continue. They tried to work with me. At one point they promoted me to "clear" status, lol. It was pretty bizzare.

I remember one time my x-boyfriend, who was an officer at the time, told me that they were all advised to avoid reading the bad publicity that was coming out about scientology because it could make them "PTS" and get sick. I thought that was wild! I explained to him that I would read it.

I genuinely liked the people I encountered there. Some of them seemed very intelligent, compassionate and sincere. Some got a lot out of it.

When I left, I just figured, different strokes for different folks. It wasn't until later that I heard some of the horror stories. Very strange indeed. I'm glad that people have access to the publicity.

The words that come to mind re: Scientology based only on my short, first-hand experience is "enter at your own risk" and "Buyer beware." And that's because not everyone responds well to their methods of "help". :)

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Post by jj » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:57 am

In addition to the insightful words I've read here I have one insight about Scientology. It's called "Spiritual body building." This is what the ego loves to do, build more and more. Scientology (is there an abbreviation for that word? I'll use ST from here on) has levels and what seems to be a ladder of hierarchy that you climb and identify with. This also gives time and a mind projected future to attain 'this or that'. Maybe ST works to gain new members and collect so much money because it mirrors so well what we do in our 'normal' conditioned lives. At work we want to climb to corporate ladder. In sports we often want to get better and attain higher goals (pun). In social rings we often want to climb to the top of the ladder.

It is the mind acting sort of like a pig, trying to eat whatever it can in an attempt to grow its sense of self in hopes of reaching a kind of immortality, no? Ron Hubbard is an example. People now talk about him, even in death. Egos love this idea of a self that is elevated by others even after its demise. But people do it about movie stars, leaders and presidents, etc etc.. It's the same basic model at work, just a different structure.

It is all a profound spiritual journey. There's nothing wrong with any of it. It is as it is. It's beautiful. Can you feel inner energy absorbed into awareness when you accept it as it is, when you surrender to the reality of it, when you forgive them?

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Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:07 pm

On the bright side, L Ron Hubbard wrote some excellent science fiction. Battlefield Earth was a great read and Mission Earth was a riot.

I often wonder if what Scientology became is what Hubbard had invisioned when he wrote Dianetics, or was it something that evolved because of the misunderstanding of its later leaders. This kind of spiritual degredation often happens within defined organizations that follow a spiritual teachers vision.

It is certainly a demonstation as to why it is unwise to do to much following as compared to direct awareness.

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Post by lightdancing » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:31 pm

I wondered that too, Webwanderer, as I listened to some of the other members speak of "the truth about scientology". It seemed, rather than speak from personal experience, they quoted L. Ron Hubbard as though the fact that he said it was proof that it was true. Some of the LRH's material suggested strongly to me that taking another person's words as the final authority was the direct opposite of what he recommended.

On the other hand, I wasn't exposed to a lot of his teachings. And like any religion, LRH had stories about us - we are "thetans" - spiritual beings which reincarnate on different planets. It was in reading ET and BK later that my awareness was brought to the nature of thought itself so that I could experience directly how the sense of the separate me exists through the unconscious attachment to thought. And how once that is seen, stories aren't needed. So simple. Mixing the ingredients of religious stories and unexamined "me's" together can certainly spiral into some destructive results.
jj wrote:It is all a profound spiritual journey. There's nothing wrong with any of it. It is as it is. It's beautiful. Can you feel inner energy absorbed into awareness when you accept it as it is, when you surrender to the reality of it, when you forgive them?
Yes, and taking this a step further, when it is seen that unconscious identification with thought is the source of personal suffering, it may also be seen that there is nothing to forgive.

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Post by eseward » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:27 pm

lightdancing wrote:when it is seen that unconscious identification with thought is the source of personal suffering, it may also be seen that there is nothing to forgive.
I always love when this is mentioned in posts. This info has done me sooo much good. Thanks for mentioning it again, lightdancing. :)

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Post by Jetlag » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:26 am

Hubbard used to be involved with Aleister Crowley and Jack Parson.
That should be enough to scare you off :wink:

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