Scientific explanations?

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Student
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Post by Student » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:31 am

I think I'm digging myself into a deep hole. I was intending to bring a little bit of levity into the discussion :D.

Anyway, I occasionally do use the word God, but not as a him or her, since I think of God as Being or Presence.

Goldenflutist
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Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:04 am

I do not understand why 'God" had to be referred as a “he” for any reason whatsoever.
No, student you are not digging yourself into a whole. I don't recall saying anywhere that I was offended. I said above that I did not understand why.... I loved one of your earlier posts because it is beautiful. :)

My only issue was when I listened to that audio sample which sounded so much like a church preacher, I could see why that would turn a lot of people off.

My observations in this world is that referring to presence and being as a personal God like the book you mentioned has been the source of many of the problems facing humans today.

I have always thought it interesting that during a war, each side is praying to "their God" for victory, when in fact that "God" is in each soldier on both sides and they aren't even aware of it.

Such unconsciousness if frightening to me.

It just creates more problems than it solves. Since it hasn't worked since time in memorial, why keep it. :) But of course that is just MHO. :wink:

GF
A dog's eyes reflect the innocence and beauty of nature.

Student
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Post by Student » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:32 am

Thanks for the clarification GF. I agree that collective religious ego identification is producing a lot of suffering in our world today.

Also, I understand how much of a turn off a gender based and revival type language can be. The Course in Miracles, which I think was channeled in the 60's and 70's, does contain gender language, but has a lot of power in it if you can get past the language.

:D

Goldenflutist
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Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:39 am

I guess I would rather read or listen to something that is just as powerful and says the same thing without the "God' and gender identification.

To be honest with you, I could have very easily latched onto that book had I gotten a hold of it before Tolle's work, but I personally needed to let go of that personal God and Holy Spirit thing for obvious reasons.

Keep those posts a comin... You share a lot of wisdom and insight in your writings. :)

GF
A dog's eyes reflect the innocence and beauty of nature.

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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:06 am

When Im in Mexico I speak Spanish, when Im in Quebec I speak French. It doesnt matter what the words are, its what they signify. Are there really any right or wrong words? ACiM is one language, Buddhism another, Sufi another, Wicca another. I try to understand as many languages as possible, and the more I do the more Im struck with the fundamental similarity of all of them.

I like to think that Im equally at home talking about reality in the christian idiom as I am the pagan, or materialist. All different words describing the same reality.

I had a hard time with ACiM at first too. But for me the book is too potent to ignore. If the words He, God and Jesus arent part of your perferred vocabulary, translate them into any language you want. ACiM explicitly speaks of its own relativism, actually...about as undogmatic as a book can be. God and Jesus are just constructs to allow the mind to align with the infinite.

The important thing is the message: we were created as love, by love, and anything that is not love, is not real. We choose to turn away from love in favor of the ego, but the love that creates us never turns away from us. Love allows us to choose again at any time. ACiM is about choosing again.

Of course, the word 'love' has just as much potential for misunderstanding as 'God.'

The funniest part of the whole strange ACiM saga is, the woman who channeled it was an agnostic research psychologist! She found the whole experience of talking to 'Jesus' quite awkward and embarassing, and kept it secret for a long time. She never did really accept what she was being told.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:17 am

It doesn’t matter what the words are, its what they signify. Are there really any right or wrong words
Apparently there is significance to a great many people or we would not have the religious division we now have in this world.
I like to think that I’m equally at home talking about reality in the Christian idiom as I am the pagan, or materialist. All different words describing the same reality.
Congratulations for being able to do that.

I say drop the language and find a common ground. Tolle was able to do it.

GF
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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:47 am

Goldenflutist wrote:
It doesn’t matter what the words are, its what they signify. Are there really any right or wrong words
Apparently there is significance to a great many people or we would not have the religious division we now have in this world.
Thats just it. We confuse words with reality. We think words are real. People will kill and die to protect their words.

Id say all division comes from this fundamental confusion. The first division comes from learning our name. The word we learn quickly becomes more real than the nameless presence that we are. I AM So-and-so. And then the story about the name starts. Our mind is divided between what we are and the words. and thats the seed around which all the division in the world crystalizes.
I say drop the language and find a common ground. Tolle was able to do it.
You can say that again! :P

We had the wordless mind once, but we didnt know it. It was easy to lose. Now that we have been lost in words, when we find our way back to the wordless we know what it is worth..
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:09 am

Yes, the distinction about the word God or 'the creator' is made for clarity only.

ET rarely uses it and explains why.

Ive mentioned it here and to WebWanderer

Unfortunately it would seem I have now been branded a militant secular mind and superficial by WW and JD.

Hey, such is life :wink:
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:19 pm

OnlyNow then you can say that you follow adveita old school style . :lol:
There is no difference between that and modern science from what I have understood anyway.
Don't think anyone has followed it to its fullest. Nizarbblala or how you now spell it didn't. He supposedly made you question all your believes and knowledge but he didn't question his own cultural upbringing, like indian women shouldn't speak until spoken too. That was fun to know. I see no difference between the too.

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Post by eseward » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:41 pm

Seancho wrote:Im struck with the fundamental similarity of all of them.

All different words describing the same reality.
Beautiful. :)
Seancho wrote:The important thing is the message: we were created as love, by love, and anything that is not love, is not real. We choose to turn away from love in favor of the ego, but the love that creates us never turns away from us. Love allows us to choose again at any time. ACiM is about choosing again.
How very beautifully you said that, Seancho. So nice.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:12 pm

ninjin wrote:OnlyNow then you can say that you follow adveita old school style . :lol: .................
That could well be true ninjin


.....but do I get a hat? :lol:
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:31 pm

The hat is an illusion so it is and have never been. So you decide if you get one or not :?.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:37 pm

OK, I wanna moderators hat, then, when I answer a question I can answer as a 'we'

Its all part of being a 'super official' didn't you know :wink:
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:21 pm

Done.
Now I will continue with Mumonkan.

OnlyNow
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Post by OnlyNow » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:52 pm

Ah Zen, the sudden path

They study for years :wink:
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

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