Ego & True Self Are on the Same Team :)

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Narz
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Ego & True Self Are on the Same Team :)

Post by Narz » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:37 pm

Think about it.

Ego wants :
  • to feel loved
  • to be respected
  • to feel connected
"True Self" wants :
  • to feel love
  • to feel respect
  • to feel connected
Whatever the ego is, it's not the enemy. It's here to protect and serve just like every other physical, mental & emotional part of you.

It may be misguided and have inaccurate data but that's not "ego's" fault (assuming here that ego is an "unconscious" part of us), that's your fault (for seeing ego an the enemy to be smote instead of a alley who can help us know when something isn't right).

Personally, I find the line between ego & non-ego very fine. In fact, it's really impossible (for me) to tell the difference. When I think I'm beyond ego chances are I'm just being feel of myself (the ego part of myself that is ;)) more than ever, I find this to be true of others also.

So perhaps the best approach is to just love yourself now, including your ego, because who knows, maybe that's it. And if you listen to Tolle, that is it, the present moment, all you got. So enjoy it. And enjoy your ego. The lil' bastard's gonna get fed somehow (that's one of the things I love about him, so goddamn persistant! :)) so you might as you nurture him (or her) consciously. :)[/list]

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:30 pm

Well you kind of missed the point.
True self don't need others love or respect and it is connected.
True-self is love and connection in its essence.
Not the love that most people think of which comes with a list of demands.

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Post by Narz » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:53 pm

ninjin wrote:Well you kind of missed the point.
True self don't need others love or respect and it is connected.
True-self is love and connection in its essence.
Yeah, those are the ideals, eh?

That's why I phrased it the way I did. ;)

That said, if you can realize that by serving others you serve yourself you don't need some dualistic philosophy to act right, it will start to come naturally. :)

Also, those are unattainable for most people, IMO. Have you ever met someone who could live with lack of love & with no respect and yet feel completely loving and respectful in return? Before someone jumps in to say Gandhi, keep in mind that Gandhi commanded extraordinary respect and love from many, many people. His wife stayed with him even when he stopped having sex with her (not so sure my GF would do that :), not that I'd ever ask her too).
ninjin wrote:Not the love that most people think of which comes with a list of demands.
That's not love. And is clearly recognizable as not love.

You don't have to be enlightened or transcend ego to realize this either. I know when I'm not being loving and can stop and withdraw myself so I don't hurt those I love. Those who blame "the ego" and believe that they are "still unconscious" may not be able to do this. But I don't have all this mental noise (even if Tolle says it, if it's not useful it's still just noise ;)) to trip me up so it's easier for me (that and I have alot of practice at being socially inept so I've had alot of learning :)).

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:08 pm

It ain't ideals it is highly attainable.
Why serve others? That gives the impression of hierarchy.
Also most that help others only do it in order for themselves to feel good.
It might be a better drug than others but it is still a drug.
People seldom help just to help.

Just because you are enlightened doesn't mean that you can't walk away from people that do you no good. If people want to hit you in the head with a baseball bat you are free to go somewhere else and be just as happy.
You still act in the world but without all the emotional baggage.
Your meet someone who loves you thats all good. She leaves you thats all good. Your state doesn't change depending on circumstances but that doesn't mean that you can't act according to those circumstances.

Most people act that loves comes with a list. He/She have to do this and that, must work like this or that and so on. He/she must be this weight and so on.
Most people don't even seam to have any love in their relationship they are content.

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Post by Narz » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:17 pm

ninjin wrote:It ain't ideals it is highly attainable.
Not to the extremes you mentioner earlier (not needing any love &/or respect from others). Or perhaps I'm mistaken. But I've never met anyone completely emotionally self-sufficient. As social as humans are, I imagine this is very rare.
ninjin wrote:Why serve others? That gives the impression of hierarchy.
Also most that help others only do it in order for themselves to feel good.
It might be a better drug than others but it is still a drug.
People seldom help just to help.
I disagree. I see people help just to help all the time. Maybe they want a "thank you" in return but is that too much to ask?
ninjin wrote:Just because you are enlightened doesn't mean that you can't walk away from people that do you no good. If people want to hit you in the head with a baseball bat you are free to go somewhere else and be just as happy.
You still act in the world but without all the emotional baggage.
Your meet someone who loves you thats all good. She leaves you thats all good. Your state doesn't change depending on circumstances but that doesn't mean that you can't act according to those circumstances.
That sounds attainable. Well somewhat anyway.
ninjin wrote:Most people act that loves comes with a list. He/She have to do this and that, must work like this or that and so on. He/she must be this weight and so on.
Most people don't even seam to have any love in their relationship they are content.
I wouldn't say they are "content".

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:30 pm

Not to the extremes you mentioner earlier (not needing any love &/or respect from others). Or perhaps I'm mistaken. But I've never met anyone completely emotionally self-sufficient. As social as humans are, I imagine this is very rare.
Of course it is rare. But we don't really need others to love us. It's not like we die if others don't love us. As I said earlier love as a drug.
I disagree. I see people help just to help all the time. Maybe they want a "thank you" in return but is that too much to ask?
Well I don't. I'm talking about the physical response they get from helping, the conditioned mind their action originates. They get a kick out of helping.
If those they are helping wants to thank then thats up to them. Wanting a thank you is still a egocentric idea. Not wanting a thank you is still a egocentric idea.

Okay not content but this is as good as it gets.

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Post by Narz » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:53 am

ninjin wrote:Of course it is rare. But we don't really need others to love us. It's not like we die if others don't love us. As I said earlier love as a drug.
Not a need but not something I think should should avoiding pursuing.
ninjin wrote:Well I don't. I'm talking about the physical response they get from helping, the conditioned mind their action originates. They get a kick out of helping.
So, what's wrong with that? Everyone does everything for the feeling of it. If meditation felt like getting punched in the crotch, no one would do it.
ninjin wrote:If those they are helping wants to thank then thats up to them. Wanting a thank you is still a egocentric idea. Not wanting a thank you is still a egocentric idea.
So, what isn't an egocentric idea? Is the idea of being enlightened and connected to all beings and feeling blissful an egocentric idea?
ninjin wrote:Okay not content but this is as good as it gets.
People are complacent, I'll give you that. Just content enough to avoid taking action.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:30 am

Wanting to be enlightened is a egocentric idea being it is not.

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Post by Narz » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:16 am

ninjin wrote:Wanting to be enlightened is a egocentric idea being it is not.
Hmm, but to get enlightened you have to want it. I don't believe enlightenment "just happens" to people randomly. Anything worth attaining takes discipline and focused concentration.

Well supposedly Tolle's enlightenment was a fluke gift but I'll bet if you look deeper there was more to it than just one moment suffering, next moment enlightenment. Or maybe not. Only Tolle is qualified to answer that.

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Post by CFSLos Angeles » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:56 pm

Wow, nice little "spirited" (pun intended) debate you two are having. Actually Narz, ninjin is a little closer to the "truth." In fact I was just listening to Tolle's "A New Earth" cds in my car and he was talking about this very subject.

That believing that "being of service" to others is somehow "better" than or more loftier than watching say, a baseball game (I forget his exact wording, but this was the jist).

He says that your ONLY "goal" on this path, is to give this moment your undivided attention. That's it. Doesn't matter the "what", as it's all just content anyway. And consciousness doesn't have a hierarchy of importance regarding one thing being "better" than another.

While our rational mind has a hard time with this because it lives to pass judgement, Tolle points out that if you believe "doing or giving to others" is a noble thing, than you need others to be in need in order for you to be able to "give service" to them; an observation that at first seems quite subtle, but the more you "think" about the more obvious it becomes.

So, where does that leave us? Just be a loving craftsman in whatever you do in this moment, whether it's opening a door for a stranger or writing a post on the E.T. discussion community! When you honor the present moment with your full awareness, you ARE being of service to source and thus yourself. Just fully be here now and enjoy the show. :)

Love and serenity,

Michael
Last edited by CFSLos Angeles on Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Webwanderer » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Great post CFSLos Angeles. Points to the essence of being.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:09 pm

Narz wrote: Hmm, but to get enlightened you have to want it. I don't believe enlightenment "just happens" to people randomly. Anything worth attaining takes discipline and focused concentration.
Look at it from the the perspective of paint by numbers. You follow the instructions but don't really know the impact of the painting or what it is until you have finished it.



CFSLos Angeles that was the point I was trying to make.

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Post by Narz » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:41 am

Hi LA, I agree that being in the moment and enjoying it SHOULD be always the priority. That said, there are infinite choices of what to do with the moment and being good to others makes good sense from a practical perspective.

Even Tolle says something like "I could be in the present moment standing next to a blaring speaker at a loud discotech but I would probably choose to be elsewhere" :D.

Being in the present isn't an escape from responsibility. If anything (for me), being in the present and paying attention makes me more aware of my preferences, not less. When I stop forcing myself to do things, blocking things out, etc. I realize, "damn, I really like this moment" and often times "damn, I really don't like this one". It's not all about "thoughts", more feelings. Some people's energy feels good, some feels bad. When something feels bad you can't just run away, you have to formulate a plan. In the meantime though, it's good to be as honest with yourself & present as possible. It sure it hard sometimes, like a wild animal, I sometimes cringe away from certain situations.

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Post by weichen » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:18 am

Narz's title for this thread resonate with one of my near death experience long time ago.

I was feeling very ill. My ego perceived that I was dying, and my ego had one assumption (from past illness experience) that mental noise would reduce my inner healing power thus make me die sooner. So given two choices (1. resisting this situation, die sooner; or 2. surrender to this situation, die slower), ego chose to surrender completely. At that particular moment, ego and spirit wants the same thing: surrender. So you can say that ego and spirit were on the same team at that second.


Once the decision (of surrender) was executed, something magical happened, I experienced deep peace that I had never experienced in life. So the spiritual text (sign posts) I had read before suddenly linked to the real life experience of deep peace. The ego said, "hey, man, I like this mystical power, I did not know that I had it inside me. Those spiritual teachers were actually telling the truth".


From that point on, ego and spirit were on the same team a lot more often.

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Post by weichen » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:32 am

Spirit wants connection.

Ego, at the deepest level, also wants connection. People like to connect with certain other people (good looking, powerful, strong, smart, rich, etc). In order to successfully connect with these people, ego decided to boost its own ranking. Bank robbers want to connect with people who can provide service or product for money, so they rob banks (disregard the bank owner's well being). So the sepration is ego's means, the connection is the ego's ends.

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