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Concept #587982

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:37 pm
by shappy
If you want to seek something - anything at all - then seek the truth. Why not? And don't give me that nonsense that you're not seeking. You are. Even when you think you're not, you still are. So accept that you are seeking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of seeking, so rest easy - you're fine just the way you are.

Hooray, you're a seeker and you know it. You're that much closer to truth. "Hi, my name is ________, and I'm a seeker". Welcome to Seekers Anonymous. "But spiritual people say it's bad to be a seeker, that I shouldn't do it", says anonymous. Bullshit. Seeking is your nature. Think about that... you're doing it, therefore it is your nature.

Anyone who tells you not to do something, they are laying another blanket on you while you sleep. Keeping you warm so you can sleep longer. Like the priest who tells you that sex is bad, or the "guru" that tells you that seeking is bad. What a joke.

Enjoy yourselves! Or don't! Just be.

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:18 pm
by A Name is a Label
Insightful, for sure.

I've had many times where I've thought about why I do things, rather than just doing them and figuring it out along the way. I have a need or desire to figure things out before I do them. I figure that by the time I'm 70 I'll have figured out how to raise a child... too bad my reproductive organs will have ceased to function, therefore leaving me with no child to raise. Get what I'm saying here?

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:29 pm
by BrahmanEternal
Hmm, seeking means that you prefer future, and that you are using the present moment so your ego can feel its in a special place and be happy about it, its duallity, judging, prefering. This is the perfect moment no other , so seeking is good but only if it means that you seek what is here and now, this is an interesting word game so yes seeking is OK if its the seeking without seeking.

Re: Concept #587982

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:34 pm
by Seancho
shappy wrote:you're doing it, therefore it is your nature.
Cant argue with that! :P

So then the truth is that you are a truth seeker. And in that case, havent you've already found it?

You already are what you are seeking!

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:19 pm
by weichen
shappy wrote:But spiritual people say it's bad to be a seeker, that I shouldn't do it", says anonymous. Bullshit
I agree.


Many spiritual people (including members on this forum) often say that "call off the search, stop seeking, abandon the effort", they are giving another people an unsolicited advice of "an alternative". What they really say is: "It is ok to search, to seek, to make effort. If you get something out of it, great. If you get nothing out of the effort and instead you suffer and make people around you suffer, great also. But you know what, there is another alternative, you can temporarily call off the seeking especially when you feel pain. Take a gap of stillness, a long gap if possible. Geting more clear on who you really are would help your seeking to be more productive when you resume your seeking. You can always resume seeking whenever you feel like, no one is going to stop you. There is another alternative: delegate the seeking to other people. Delegate the scienfic seeking to scientists, delegate the seeking of new recipe to professional cooks, delegate spiritual seeking to spiritual teachers. How nice would it be that you could just sit back and read a new insightful spiritual book for only 20 dollars without you having to do the seeking in person ? If you want to do spiritual seeking, there is also another alternative way of seeking: replace individual seeking with more organized group seeking to make seeking easier and more productive."

In a way, all unsolicited advice has a higher chance to be bullshit than otherwise, because the advice giver is minding another person's business. :-)

"Stop seeking" does not imply "stop and never resume seeking".

stop

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:15 am
by innermusiq
Seeking is the opiate for the mind.

Stop seeking is a pointer to that which is seeking itself.

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:43 am
by suraj
IMO , 'Stop Seeking' advice can work only for those who have been seeking for very long; been to many meditation workshops, listened to various gurus , read many books ; but still not found . For them , 'Stop Seeking' is a powerful pointer. Who are we to say that it doesn't work for anybody. Of course , telling this to the person , who haven't had even the first glimpse of awakening which ET talks about in ANE, is a waste and harmful , I would say.

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:02 pm
by shappy
The thing is, when we read stuff like "seeking is the opiate for the mind", then we automatically question ourselves. "Oh no", says our little me, "I shouldn't be seeking". But you are seeking. You're on this forum. It's obvious you're seeking. And yet the seeking ego, like a robot, says "seeking is bad" on an on-line forum specifically for people who are seeking!

The point is to let go. To let go of trying to be perfect or trying to do it "right". To let go of the concept of seeking by allowing it. To not resist it. To not resist anything. The point is also to allow yourself to be honest. Challenge yourself. Experiment. Get frustrated. Get angry. Reassess what you believe. But at your own pace, of course.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:26 pm
by weichen
Indeed, seekers that say "call off the seeking" are not aware that they are seeking all the time.

The workers in a research building can be seen as one single seeker. The janitors do the cleaning, they may take special training to dispose toxic waste products. Technicians feed rabbits and mice and do the injections. Senior technician prepare the chemicals for the injection, dissection of animal, take tissues, perform advanced lab tests. Junior scientists create the plan of seeking (how to prepare the special chemicals, design special lab tests etc), he may copy an existing seeking plan from scientific journals, make some modification. Senior scientists may review the seeking plan created by junior scientists and make corrections, they write annual seeking proposals, which will be reviewed by director of research.

When seeking is done in this organized way, no one feels the strain of efforting. The janitor is a seeker (or part of a seeking organization), without him, the seeking will certainly fail.

The entire human species can be seen as a single seeker. To this seeker, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you"

Re: Concept #587982

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:45 pm
by Ives
shappy wrote:Seeking is your nature. Think about that... you're doing it, therefore it is your nature.

But what happens when you find what you’re looking for?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:06 am
by shappy
Ives wrote:But what happens when you find what you’re looking for?
You are free. (And you thought I was going to say that you stop seeking, right? ;) Although, one could stop seeking and probably will... but that doesn't mean that one should. See the difference?)

You are free to seek or to not seek.

You, as a human, have a complete spectrum of emotions that you are capable of having. This is what makes you a human. To deny any of it is ludicrous.

A cat meows, licks itself, has 4 legs, a tail, whiskers, etc... everything that makes a cat a cat is available to it. Whether it be to purr on your lap or to scratch your eye out. It makes no difference to a cat.

So why are we perpetually denying ourselves our right to seek? Because we are often told that it's bad to do so. And so, as a result, our minds create more clutter. Because now there has to be something to counter the seeking. And on it goes.

As we become more and more aware, we can drop seeking by simply identifying it and allowing it. And once enough clutter is removed, we are left with the only thing that remains.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:52 am
by Dongle
Seeking almost always refers to self seeking, or some sort of personal growth based seeking, seeking implies want, desire and a focus on the future.

Seeking is a natural human behavior or a function of desire? If we don't do, we seek? IMO if you want to seek seek, but it is not necessary.

Nevertheless, without seeking I would never have come into contact with ET, so in actuality seeking is necessary at some point. Lovely statements such as,
You already are what you are seeking!
point to a point 'now' but most often in the future, for those of us who have not yet disidentified with seeking and little me. The disidentification with seeking or dropping of seeking, may not necessarily mean an absence of seeking; seeking without seeking. However it is no longer necessary and it is not an actively engaged in process.

This thread reminds me of many of the teachings, from the perspective of mind, statements such as seancho's above, represent a paradox, seeking is necessary and not necessary at the same time. I feel many of ET's teachings also have a paradoxical quality. These paradoxes are however generated by identification, as such the quality of seancho's statement is lost on the identified mind.

watch

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:37 am
by innermusiq
When the seeking is observed the perspective changes (imo) from that of seeking to a falling away of previously held thoughts and beliefs.To the mind its a search which is also judged as frustrating but its actually the disolving "me" when observed and not judged.Try it just watch.. its happening by itself and has its own momentum, the ego calls it a search to appear as if it has choice and control.

How do you know when you have found it ?

When it is realised that The knowing can become a thought but the thought can Not become the Knowing.

It cannot be expressed in words and "thought " is seen for what it is

A miracle.

Not the enemy.

Its all one miracle.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:57 pm
by Seancho
If you seek the truth, then that is the truth. That is what you are doing. Thats what is.

If you stop seeking the truth, then that is the truth. Thats what you are doing. That is what is.

It doesnt matter what you do, or what you think. Whatever it is...is.

We already are the truth. We'll never find it because we never lost it.

Whatever you do, whatever you dont do, whatever you think, whatever you dont think, whatever happens, whatever doesnt happen....

the truth. How could it not be?

How can you find it when there is no avoiding it! :lol:

How can you lose what is?

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:32 am
by weichen
Maybe the person who coined this signpost "you are what you seek" laughted at the time of realization, and his friends thinks this phrase is profound and funny. It is!!!

You ae seeking for happiness in future but true happiness exists only at the present moment, you are the present moment, and you are happiness. This quote (either directly from Eckhart or my free translation from Eckhart) is also profound and funny, but a lot clearer.

Is there any other important spiritual message in "you are what you seek" and "Stop seeking" that is in addition to the second Eckhart's quote ?

All signpost will die when it needs to die. I avoid using "you are what you seek" or "stop seeking" because it conveys a profound spiritual message with a high background noise and confusion.