A Noisy Squirrel Cage

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
User avatar
summer
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:42 am
Location: California

Post by summer » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:02 am

Kiiki shared
This seems to be the way of this awakening - it only bears fruit when it bears fruit, and no amount of words can force that fruit to ripen before its time.

Image

When the bud is ripe, the flower blooms.

And I certainly appreciate all of the gems that you share with us, kiki.


And dear be-lank
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:26 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dancer suggested
Quote:
By renouncing thought altogether! (Says dancer, standing on his pulpit.)

Summer's response:

"When we have each discovered this OFF switch within ourselves, then we are qualified to help others learn our methods. But until then, how can we honestly tell everyone to renounce thought, when we don't know how to do it ourselves?"

Agreed. But lets watch assumption. Dancer might have an off switch.

If Dancer has found the OFF switch and is willing to share some of his insights, I am all ears. And the same goes for you Be-Lank, and each and everyone of us.

The flower blooms when it is ripe. Still, the nature of the soil and the seasons of the weather all feed the roots of the plants.

We all have an ability to help and share in each others blossoming, when we give naturally of ourselves. I really appreciate the way that everyone shares so honestly on this site.
Last edited by summer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:03 am

Ornery Ole Phil has to weigh in, just to keep this tea kettle boiling.

What percent of the people who have had some introduction to these teaching wind up awakening, as has been described here?

We have no idea. Not a clue.

Why? Because we reject thought, we reject science in regards to this issue, we scoff at the whole idea of actually finding out whether a teaching method works or not.

Thus, we continue blindly, teaching the same things the same way over and over again, _for 2,000 years_, while humanity edges ever closer to, who knows what.

Fiddling, deeply attached to our ideas, to our favorite polarities, to the past, while Rome burns.

By focusing so exclusively on a specific experience, that even Kiki agrees, comes when it comes, to who it will come to, we are tossing out the window the overwhelming majority of people who are NOT going to have this experience no matter how you explain it.

If we are one, all these people matter. They are us. We are them. Their fate is ours.

These people have the capacity to make enormous positive contributions of all types, from a position of partial understanding.

But that would all be mindstuff. Never mind then.

As a representative of this group of unawakened but sincere people, I've been nominated to offer this to you my friends.

Find a place for us, AS WE ARE, within your religion if you want us to believe you believe in peace.

Or we're donating all our money to the Bill O'Reilly show. :-) No bloviating, that's our job! :-)

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:11 am

Philly, isn't it past your bedtime?

Now go get your p.j.'s on- and be sure to brush your teeth. (and put them in the glass)

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:14 am

The Off switch is Be Still.


Lovely flower, Summer

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:24 am

KIKI!

"I agree. It's like you discover this amazing food that you want everyone else to taste, too, except all of the recipes to cook it up and serve it don't work very well. So you keep experimenting with the recipe (explanation) in hopes that others will finally taste it too. Once they finally taste it then they are stuck with creating a recipe for someone else."

Thank-you!

And now I know what Phimiester was rattling about in the previous post.

He didn't like the idea of some being awake and him not being.

Oh well.

"I hear the kettle whistling - time to take a drink."

May I join you kind, sir? :)

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4606
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:24 am

phil wrote:What percent of the people who have had some introduction to these teaching wind up awakening, as has been described here?

We have no idea. Not a clue.

Why? Because we reject thought, we reject science in regards to this issue, we scoff at the whole idea of actually finding out whether a teaching method works or not.
In the realm of everything else, thought is wholly appropriate. Only in the experience of consciously knowing one's true nature is thought is an interference.

I don't reject thought at all. I would never tell anyone to reject thought. Those who tell others to reject thought are misleading people, for the one who would reject thought is thought itself. That is akin to telling someone to stand on a board and then lift themselves up - it just doesn't work.

All I ask is to observe what thought arises in. Once this is seen, then identification with thought will begin to dissolve. Thought will always be around, but no longer identified with. Once identification with thought is broken thoughts tend to diminish on their own. It never has to be forced, it happens spontaneously.

k

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:34 am

GREAT POST KIKI!


That must be some tea.

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:22 am

“Ornery Ole Phil has to weigh in, just to keep this tea kettle boiling."

You don’t have to do anything. It’s already on the burner.

“What percent of the people who have had some introduction to these teaching wind up awakening, as has been described here? We have no idea. Not a clue.”

Where’s the problem?

”Why? Because we reject thought, we reject science in regards to this issue.”

Identification with thought is the problem.

“We scoff at the whole idea of actually finding out whether a teaching method works or not.”

Pardon?

“Thus, we continue blindly, teaching the same things the same way over and over again, _for 2,000 years_, while humanity edges ever closer to, who knows what.”

Intriguing.

”Fiddling, deeply attached to our ideas, to our favorite polarities, to the past, while Rome burns.”

Let it burn. A new world is born.

"By focusing so exclusively on a specific experience, that even Kiki agrees, comes when it comes, to who it will come to, we are tossing out the window the overwhelming majority of people who are NOT going to have this experience no matter how you explain it."

So?

"If we are one, all these people matter. They are us. We are them."

Right.

"Their fate is ours."

Mmmmm
This must be a heavy burden to bear.
Maybe God is on top of it all.


"These people have the capacity to make enormous positive contributions of all types, from a position of partial understanding."

It is not about positive changes.
It is about the transformation of consciousness.
Every caterpillar becomes a butterfly on their own. Some don’t make it. But they ARE the ones who do.

Oneness Oneness Oneness

It only looks like a separation, but it's not.

Everything is right and alright.

Consciousness is eternal and who we are.

Nothing can destroy who we are.

Relax and let God do the work- from within.

Trust in this.

Nothing is as it seems.


“But that would all be mindstuff. Never mind then.” Gold star.

”As a representative of this group of unawakened but sincere people, I've been nominated to offer this to you my friends. Find a place for us, AS WE ARE, within

”Yes. We are. Join us. Go within.

“your religion if you want us to believe you believe in peace."

Forget belief- You are Peace. You’re just hard-headed!

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:05 am

kiki wrote:All I ask is to observe what thought arises in. Once this is seen, then identification with thought will begin to dissolve.


Thanks Kiki, I really do appreciate your writings on this topic. I sense you're doing what you were born to do, and I honor that.

But, just for a moment, could we set aside the awakening of an individual?

I realize that thought is an interference in the process of knowing one's true nature. Could thought be an aid in finding new ways to share this message?

2,000 years of teaching this message in personal dialogues such as we're having. In spite of that of all that fine work, a tsunami of global calamity swells on the horizon.

The school board notices this, and is knocking on our classroom door, asking why we're still using a 2,000 year old lesson plan.

Can thought and silence be married in some new manner to speed things up a tad?

Anything you'd care to share will be read with interest!

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4606
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:12 pm

phil wrote:I realize that thought is an interference in the process of knowing one's true nature. Could thought be an aid in finding new ways to share this message?
As inadequate as it is, thought is pretty much what were stuck with in sharing this with others. Even with people who go into silence while in the presence of someone who embodies silence, there oftentimes come words afterwards which stimulates new dialogue. In short, were stuck using words until it is realized no words are needed.

For those who are still struggling with words I would say relax. The yearning to discover what you really are will carry you there, and as Adyashanti says, that yearning comes from silence itself. I would agree with that, though it sounds paradoxical.

Short of using words, go outside and absorb yourself in nature. Notice how it all simply is - no straining in nature to become anything at all. Each moment is an expression of its fullness. The same is true of you - when you sense it in nature, you are sensing it in yourself. The real you is not straining, trying to become anything at all; straining comes from the ego.

In terms of finding new ways to share this I will direct you to read Fading Toward Enlightenment by Wayne Wirs. Although I haven't read it myself, I sense from the reviews that he has captured this sharing in a unique way.

k

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:59 pm

Thanks Kiki,
kiki wrote:As inadequate as it is, thought is pretty much what were stuck with in sharing this with others.
Hmm. My sense is that an approach that looks upon thought as something inadequate that we are stuck with could be a self induced limitation, an unnecessary weight we carry from 2,000 years of conditioning.

Let's put thought to work, and see what it can do.

First, we'll analyze an extensive millenia long field test. We'll observe that the classic method of sharing has a profound effect upon a few, a positive benefit for some, and is generally lost upon the majority.

As scientists, we are estatic to have so much data, because this makes it so much easier for us to escape the limits of our own preconceived ideas, conditioning etc.

Listening to the data is a form of silence. Observing what is.

Seeking the biggest bang for our buck, we address ourselves to the needs of the majority.

As scientists, we observe these students objectively, and find them to be fully engaged in ego. Observing our historical data, we see the classic method of sharing has a low probability of reaching this group.

So we come up with a different lesson plan we hope will reach these students, where they are.

A hypothesis arises. If we give the student's ego something to chew on, will this help bring them in to the experience?

We don't know. And we won't know until we run the test, and measure the results.

We reach in to the trash can, and retrieve the graph paper the classics teacher so hastily disgarded.

We'll tell 100 students to use a timer to count how many minutes a day they meditate, and graph it. Whichever students logs the most hours, wins some ego inflating award in front of of all their peers. Thank you B. F. Skinner.

After a few months of this, we poll the students to see if they report positive results. 35% report positive results.

So, we go back to our lesson plan and make some changes. We run the test again. This time 39% report positive results. Ah, maybe we're on to something. Let's tweak the lesson plan again, and see what the next batch of data tells us.

Please note we've made no mention of space conciousness, the role of the ego, Oneness, or any other dogma. We've simply given the student's ego a reason to experiment with an experience.

If we used thought in a systematic analytic manner, we could group all the students in a similar situation, and provide them with field tested teaching methods that have been proven over time to most effectively reach that group.

Silence is still the experience we are sharing. We haven't wavered from that an inch.

But because we have liberated ourselves from a 2,000 year old "thought is bad" dogma, we are now perhaps in a better position to share this teaching more effectively, with more people.

PS: This post has _nothing whatsoever_ to do with my personal situation, which is an immeasurably tiny matter compared to the effective sharing of silence with millions.

Thanks for listening.

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:47 pm

kiki wrote:Short of using words, go outside and absorb yourself in nature. Notice how it all simply is - no straining in nature to become anything at all.
Yes Kiki, couldn't agree with this advice more.

Observing a reality beyond human thought.

Observing no straining to become anything at all.

Returning to the world of human thought, observing lots of thinkers advising me to become something or another.

Observing a form hollering,

"Aha!, a nut to chew on." :-)

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:48 pm

PS: This post has _nothing whatsoever_ to do with my personal situation, which is an immeasurably tiny matter compared to the effective sharing of silence with millions.
A big theme in your posts is about this, about all the rest of the world, and how can they "get it"? I feel you are genuinely concerned, and that you care.

However, since this is an outer "problem", in form, this desire of yours could be a comfortable distraction to knowing who you are beyond form as well.

Eckhart has said that it only takes enough humans to awaken for the whole world to awaken. That only a small percentage of humans who are awake is enough to change the whole.

Have you ever heard of "The Hundreth Monkey"?

If you have, the awakening of consciousness on this planet is like that.

So, you don't need to worry about all the others, for they will get it too-
if enough humans wake up.

If not, and all is lost, Consciousness is still here.. and no doubt will create anew.

So why worry?

"Thinking"-as in identification with thought- is simply a form of running away from this moment.

Awakening is going beyond thought- and seeing who is there.

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:25 pm

be-lank wrote:However, since this is an outer "problem", in form, this desire of yours could be a comfortable distraction to knowing who you are beyond form as well.
Yes, there is truth in this. I see it. I accept it. Observing it, agreeing with you.

But not trying to change it in to something else.

Working with it, going downstream, swimming with the current. Being here now, leaving there for another day.

Ah, yes, there it is. A comfortable safe distraction, and an arduous relentless focus. Whole.

And I see you, authentically being the form you are, doing what you do, being who you are.

A different form. But just as true to it.

PS. I'm back on my paint thinner medications, feeling much better now. :-)

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:01 pm

Somebody on another board said this:
Buddhism seems quite different; the more you study and practice the less and less a believer, or even a Buddhist you become, until you finally just drop the whole business and go about your life as an ordinary man or woman.

Post Reply