2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

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CFSLos Angeles
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2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by CFSLos Angeles » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:44 am

I am reading Perfect Brilliant Stillness by David Carse. While maybe not the smoothest writing (he does a lot of stream of consciousness writing which often means somewhat choppy sentences) I have ever read, it still contains many powerful pointers.

For example, on page 48 he says:

Thus there is a sensed rightness in the idea that humility in some form is a mark of a true sage; an intuitive sense that if one doesn't have a sense of humor about themselves and about what is happening, it is highly unlikely that awakening has occurred. Taking oneself too seriously may be a very fairly good sign that there has not been the giving up, the surrendering, of the false idea that one actually exists.

Simply put, no humilty :oops: + no sense of humor :lol: = no enlightenment :idea:

-Michael

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Post by Intel » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:35 pm

Dude read your PM's.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by weopposedeception » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:55 am

Being rigid in all the wrong places is no fun!

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:21 am

this is silly. A truly enlightened person is free to be whatever as long as they are true to themselves. Well, perhaps "humility" is a tough one to argue... but still.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:54 pm

shappy wrote:this is silly. A truly enlightened person is free to be whatever as long as they are true to themselves.
Well from a purist sense I might agree. A sense of humor is an aspect of personality and content like everything else.

On the other hand it's hard to fathom that humor doesn't spontaneosly erupt when an awakening consciousness sees some of the foibles and beliefs we assumed as truths. There are few better tools of awakening than to laugh at our own sacred cows. In fact, I would say that to the degree we can honestly laugh at those core beliefs that have held us in separate identity, we deplete their power to hold us.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:42 pm

Webwanderer wrote:On the other hand it's hard to fathom that humor doesn't spontaneosly erupt when an awakening consciousness sees some of the foibles and beliefs we assumed as truths. There are few better tools of awakening than to laugh at our own sacred cows. In fact, I would say that to the degree we can honestly laugh at those core beliefs that have held us in separate identity, we deplete their power to hold us.
Yes, honesty is a tough one to argue as well.

I guess I just don't see the point in trying to uncover character traits of a truly enlightened person. That's why this strikes me as silly.

But... after some consideration, there is a reason why this strikes me as silly which I find very interesting. I think I have always had a problem with how people should be. And, even moreso, people telling me how I should be. But this really isn't what this thread is about. Anyway, I guess now I see why I was drawn to post here!

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:21 pm

shappy wrote:I guess I just don't see the point in trying to uncover character traits of a truly enlightened person. That's why this strikes me as silly.
I ask your tollerence while I hazard some speculation. :roll:

In the ego/mind's effort to understand enlightenment, there is a process of self analysis that includes what is appropriate in charactor traits that one who is awakening might have. From the standpoint of clear awareness such concerns are irrelevent, as one sees through and beyond thoughts of right and wrong or appropriateness. One in clear awareness just lives the circumstances of life without identifying with them.

But from one still living through ego/mind as an apparently real personal identity, some charactor traits are more helpful than others in clearing a path through entrapping concepts.

So curiosity into what charactor traits are maintained by an awakened one, may be helpful to a new-be/now-be into what has value, or at least causes no harm to the awakening process.

I'm sure there are other equally valid takes on this, depending on the perspective one holds.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:29 pm

Webwanderer wrote:I ask your tollerence while I hazard some speculation. :roll:
I don't understand this sentence. What are you implying?
Webwanderer wrote:In the ego/mind's effort to understand enlightenment, there is a process of self analysis that includes what is appropriate in charactor traits that one who is awakening might have. From the standpoint of clear awareness such concerns are irrelevent, as one sees through and beyond thoughts of right and wrong or appropriateness. One in clear awareness just lives the circumstances of life without identifying with them.

But from one still living through ego/mind as an apparently real personal identity, some charactor traits are more helpful than others in clearing a path through entrapping concepts.

So curiosity into what charactor traits are maintained by an awakened one, may be helpful to a new-be/now-be into what has value, or at least causes no harm to the awakening process.
But invariably, at some point, to an "ego", this is all clutter. More nonsense for the mind to feed off of. "Ah, yes, so maybe if I'm humble and funny, then I'll be enlightened", says many a mind. "Because these are the 2 character traits that every enlightened person must have... blah, blah, blah". More clutter to cover up what is really there. More nonsense to occupy the mind.

Many people always feel the pressure to be a certain way. Even in spiritual circles. They must be calm, filled with "love", serene, etc. Blissful idiots. They don't know why they're "blissful", they just think they should be (I'm saying this with compassion).
Webwanderer wrote:I'm sure there are other equally valid takes on this, depending on the perspective one holds.
I agree. And I see your point as well. This brings up an interesting concept. It seems that there is a threshold for people seeking their true nature. It's almost as if one needs to soak up enough so that beyond this point everything else is just clutter. Meaning, once one feels that what they are taking in is clutter, they can stop feeding the mind. It's as if, at that point, they realize that there is nothing more they need to know. This was my experience. And I think its dependent on one's ability to be honest with oneself. The more honest you can be with yourself, the less time it takes to realize that any more "information" is just clutter. Some people deny this and continue taking in more clutter. They become comfortable with the clutter and it could take years to realize that it is just clutter. Once this realization happens, however, enlightenment snowballs. The threshold is different for everyone. Do you know what I'm saying?

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:52 am

shappy wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:I ask your tollerence while I hazard some speculation. :roll:
I don't understand this sentence. What are you implying?
My comments to follow were addressed to a hypothetical personality. Therefore any points I made were going to be speculative.

shappy wrote:Many people always feel the pressure to be a certain way. Even in spiritual circles. They must be calm, filled with "love", serene, etc. Blissful idiots. They don't know why they're "blissful", they just think they should be (I'm saying this with compassion).
Everyones process of awakening is unique that one. That realization of Essential Being may happen in a flash, or it may happen begrudgingly with significant deference to ego identity. It could even be many places in between those extremes. My comments were relative to those newly awakening beings who are not yet free of the ego/mind fears of screwing things up. It's not supprizing that many want to step carefully into dawning awareness.
shappy wrote:This brings up an interesting concept. It seems that there is a threshold for people seeking their true nature. It's almost as if one needs to soak up enough so that beyond this point everything else is just clutter. Meaning, once one feels that what they are taking in is clutter, they can stop feeding the mind. It's as if, at that point, they realize that there is nothing more they need to know.
Yes, I agree that this is the case for many. But I'm reluctant to paint this observation with too broad a brush. Again everyone is unique. Let us help our kindred spirits find their way, and be cautious about pressing our way. :)

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:26 am

Most definitely everyone is unique. That goes without saying.

You're implying that understanding the 2 character traits can help people and I'm implying that it's better to not bother with such silly things. Both are neither right nor wrong ways of realizing truth. This thread may be the thing that allows someone to see truth. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was a silly video entitled "Enlightenment is 8 minutes". For someone else, it's something entirely different. As long as the message comes from the heart it doesn't matter.
Webwanderer wrote:Yes, I agree that this is the case for many. But I'm reluctant to paint this observation with too broad a brush. Again everyone is unique. Let us help our kindred spirits find their way, and be cautious about pressing our way. :)
You're mistaking me for a teacher. Not long ago I thought I'd be a great teacher. Someone that would be able to say just the right thing. Or have to be weary of what I say in case it may harm someone's progress. But I realized that that was forcing my way. Now I'm just being honest. If someone can take something away from that, then wonderful. If not, then equally wonderful.

About 2 months ago I went to see Karl Renz talk in my area. Now that is one intense character. He completely shattered people's realities instead of stroking their fragile egos. He helped me immensely. There is room for everything. People can sift through this site and pick up on the things that speak to them. I'm sure you understand not all of it will.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:27 am

shappy wrote:You're mistaking me for a teacher.
Not so. There is no mistake. On one hand I was speaking generally, "Let us help our kindred spirits find their way, and be cautious about pressing our way." On the other there are generally two types of posters on this forum, those who primarily seek advice and greater understanding, and those who who offer what they can to help. (Most of us engage in some of each). You posts offer liberal amounts of advice and understanding as you know it -and quite good at that.

Teacher is only a label; one identifies with it at their own peril. Everyone teaches, everyone learns. It's actually a great system.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:57 am

Well, whatever you want to call it. The point is, I don't think I need to be cautious of pressing my way. If I want to press, then I will press so long as it's coming from an honest place (I wouldn't call it "pressing" either... it's just being). The love I feel for humanity often times makes me want to weep. Compassion has no rules.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:33 am

shappy wrote:The point is, I don't think I need to be cautious of pressing my way. If I want to press, then I will press so long as it's coming from an honest place
There are many in the world who make this same argument. Maybe they're right too.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by weopposedeception » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:50 am

I saw Karl Renz this past weekend. One of the most sarcastic persons I have ever met. Anyone who dared ask a question got their heads blown off. He didn't have any kind words about Tolle, either.

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Re: 2 "character traits" of a truly enlightened person

Post by shappy » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:05 am

Webwanderer, if you oppose this "way", then maybe you should take your own advice:
Webwanderer wrote:Let us help our kindred spirits find their way, and be cautious about pressing our way. :)
weopposedeception wrote:I saw Karl Renz this past weekend. One of the most sarcastic persons I have ever met. Anyone who dared ask a question got their heads blown off. He didn't have any kind words about Tolle, either.
This is a man who is completely free. He sees that there is no right or wrong way to be. Respect is just another concept.

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