Impediments to spiritual growth?

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Agnieszka
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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Agnieszka » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:39 pm

It is said that we know all the answers. And I know that STORIES DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, it's all content. And probably it's my ego/mind again asking questions. But still, why everyone has so very different ego/mind issues, different lessons to learn or DROP?
And a naiive one last question. Animals also seem to have identities, characterological traits, preferences, i.e. their own egos. ET' advice is to seek unity in nature. I indeed always find it there, among those creatures, fighting for their territory, killing each other for food... (I last saw some very good photos of Kenya's cheetahs teaching their little ones to skilfully kill a baby-antilope; it was so sad - I still see that fear in her eyes).
Seems that the ego-driven nature permeates the whole biological structure of Earth, from the bottom to... us. Any ideas on this? Or, am I completely stupid :roll: ?

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BrahmanEternal
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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by BrahmanEternal » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:43 pm

Yes this is what i have been wondering too, how does the infamous conditioning happen, ok kiki, webwanderer, seancho jump in.
Brain is very complex mechanism and so is the mind, seems that mind absorbs concepts, attitudes and beleif systems along the path, so depending on your parents one will get their story probably, also i think the media plays enormous role in this movies especially reaffirm the ideas of a successful identity for each male and female, not to mention society the stories are circulating through a particular society like viruses and bacterias, so Tolle, Gangaji and others are antibiotics. :)

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Lisa » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:30 pm

Goodness sakes this is good conversation! I can't wait to get off work and write my onw comments here! This is exciting! Ok...and I have something else to share with all of you. This is really, good stuff on here! Wonderful to meet all of you! Lisa

Oh and Brahman,
"Gangaji, Eckhart antibiotics??" VERY VERY FUNNY ...maybe you didn't mean it to be but that was great! Love it!

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Webwanderer
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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:29 am

Agnieszka wrote:It is said that we know all the answers. And I know that STORIES DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, it's all content. And probably it's my ego/mind again asking questions. But still, why everyone has so very different ego/mind issues, different lessons to learn or DROP?
And a naiive one last question. Animals also seem to have identities, characterological traits, preferences, i.e. their own egos. ET' advice is to seek unity in nature. I indeed always find it there, among those creatures, fighting for their territory, killing each other for food... (I last saw some very good photos of Kenya's cheetahs teaching their little ones to skilfully kill a baby-antilope; it was so sad - I still see that fear in her eyes).
Seems that the ego-driven nature permeates the whole biological structure of Earth, from the bottom to... us. Any ideas on this? Or, am I completely stupid :roll: ?
Everyone has different lessons, so to speak, as everyone has different histories. Most of our ego attributes comes from childhood. The conditions that exist in these formative years are quite varied and cause the mind to to make any number of assumptions about self identity and life as a whole. The following years just add layers of beliefs on existing assumptions about reality. The stories that spin relentlessly in our minds, are ego driven hopes and fears, as they relate to our long held beliefs about who we think we are, and our relationships to life as we see it. We are all unique in the details, but identical in the process, of creating a separate self or personification of "me".

Now that being said, it is not necessary to unravel every single belief stored in our memories. Just recognize that there is a belief system called "me",formed by a lifetime of piled up assumptions, that wants to maintain its sense of existance; and there is a pure state of clear awareness that contains it and all other forms within its field of cognizance. Life may be viewed from either perspective. One will lead to varying degrees of separation and suffering, the other to peace and oneness. There is no wrong choice, but the experience of life in form will be quite different.

As to animals having each other for lunch, it is well to consider that that which created them did so out of His/Her/Its very own being. Eco systems find their own natural balance. Predators play a key role in protecting the grazers from the pain of starving in mass due to over population. Look at places where the predators have been removed. Disease and starvation are common. Trust that the wisdom of nature will keep life in a healthy balance. And who knows the role being eaten might play in the evolution of consciousness?

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Agnieszka » Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:30 pm

Thank you Web. Please, what do you mean by: " that which created them did so out of His/Her/Its very own being"?
Agn

Lisa
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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Lisa » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:49 pm

Ok everyone, Hi.

NON ACCEPTANCE = suffering.

no matter the story....how does one accept what the mind says is unacceptable? Last weekend in New York, Eckhart Tolle said that he saw a man who was completely unable to speak and was deformed and couldn't even move...and he said that he thought to himself to pity the man...but he said when he looked into his eyes which were blue and radiant...he realized the man was not SUFFERING. Eckhart said that there is something BEAUTIFUL about being in a position in this life where there are no more OPTIONS. because those people are in a COMPLETE state of surrender and are NOT SUFFERING.

My story is only imporant to bring me to a complete state of surrender/acceptance. Thank goodness for the people I encounter along the way that contribute through compassion and grace to my own ability to accept my story.

So many good things are said here and so many good questions are asked. Blessings to all of you.

Lisa

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Webwanderer
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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:07 pm

Agnieszka wrote:Thank you Web. Please, what do you mean by: " that which created them did so out of His/Her/Its very own being"?
Agn
If one takes as a given that prior to any expression of form, in whatever realm or dimension that form is/was expressed, there is that original essence from which it emerged. (The eternal Isness) Whether that expression is imagination or more substantial matter, that form's essence is inherently that which expressed it. (Nissargadatta's most famous quote: I Am That)

Likewise, whatever awareness that exists within the various expressions of living form, is also an essential endowment of that original universal Awareness. There may be any number of conscious perspectives limited by the nature of a given form (a bug, a frog, a deer, etc.); or in more sophisticated forms, limited also by conceptual assumptions of identity. Whatever experience a form, through its conscious perspective may have, that original essential Awareness is the ultimate experiencer of every adventure.

Considerer that one of the three fundamental attributes of (dare I say?) "God" is Omni-presence. That is present in all forms, at all times, under all conditions. So when predator eats prey, Awareness, essential being, is there to experience both sides of the event first hand.

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by shappy » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:24 am

Hi Agnieszka,
Agnieszka wrote:By the way, does anyone have an idea why certain "stories" happen to particular persons (fragments of consciousness :D), each "fragment" having it's own, very specific story? Why this one, not some other one? Why mine, not my friend's, etc...?
Well, there is no mystic reason behind it. Your story is your story because of the events, people, experiences, etc that have happened in your life thus far. Content continuously dances around you. Some things we add to our stories and other things we don't. Some things we care a lot about and other things we don't. Suffering comes from the attachment to these stories; the mental and emotional investment in content.

So we are "fragments of consciousness"? Hmm, I haven't heard this story yet... ;) :D
Agnieszka wrote:why everyone has so very different ego/mind issues, different lessons to learn or DROP?
Even though everyone's story is unique, at the root, the only thing to drop is the story itself. Or to realize that it is a story.
Agnieszka wrote:And a naiive one last question. Animals also seem to have identities, characterological traits, preferences, i.e. their own egos. ET' advice is to seek unity in nature. I indeed always find it there, among those creatures, fighting for their territory, killing each other for food... (I last saw some very good photos of Kenya's cheetahs teaching their little ones to skilfully kill a baby-antilope; it was so sad - I still see that fear in her eyes).
Seems that the ego-driven nature permeates the whole biological structure of Earth, from the bottom to... us. Any ideas on this?
An ego-less world does not mean that there would be no death or that Cheetahs and Antilopes would be best friends. Life is what it is. The only thing that questions this is the ego. The only reason why our perspective on life is obscured and contaminated is because of ego. The way life moves is the way life moves. We are the only ones that make it into a problem.

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:08 pm

shappy wrote:Content continuously dances around you.
Isn't that an oxymoron? :P :)

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by enlighten » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:28 pm

Hi Lisa & welcome :)
Impediments to spiritual growth -mmmm well to put it simply -(non acceptance) or resistance of what IS , i am sure you are familiar with or have heard this famous words by Eckhart Tolle "accept what IS this moment & if you can't accept what IS -accept your non acceptance"
That is the only impediment to spiritual growth.
If you can't accept this moment as it is then accept your non acceptance or resistance >>> then see what happens but a word of caution :wink: don't bother to see what happens next or anticipate anything now that would be another impediment :)
Anyways Lisa don't worry (that's the non acceptance) much about any impediments-enjoy yourself HERE & NOW and welcome to the forum
En

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Re: Impediments to spiritual growth?

Post by Ives » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:27 pm

Impediments to spiritual growth?

Well, for a long time I believed that if I could just add more spiritual content to my mind (reading, etc.) and do the techniques better (meditation, self-observation, etc.) and basically just force myself to be present, that eventually it would all add up and enlightenment would happen. To me!

Boy did that belief slow me down! :shock:

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