Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

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piotr624
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by piotr624 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:17 pm

I just wanted to post my experience with "enlightenment". I read Eckhart's book about awakening to your life's purpose, and found that one part of the book pretty much described the exact same state of mind that I had achieved previously.

Basically, I had been experiencing enormous stresses from a variety of things. I felt like I was about to break down, when I arrived at my Chinese philosophy calass, where I followed some advice given to the class by my professor, where he described a short process for meditating. So I basically closed my eyes, focused on my heart, and tried to forget all the problems I had been dealing with. After this, it felt really strange, because even after all the massive stress and pain that I had been experiencing, I somehow felt peaceful. And when I left the class and walked home, I felt like I didn't really feel attached to any of my problems any more and I felt really good! It was like, I was just genuinely happy with no particular reason for feeling happy in the wake of all my problems.

Anyways, at the time I actually thought I had undergone dissociation. And I truly think that IS what happened (because I couldn't really feel emotions for a while), but at the same time I sort of let go of all my problems and stopped caring so much because otherwise it would have overloaded my "system" even more. So for a moment I think I felt that true happiness and peace that one would attain through enlightenment. Of course there are many other strange..side issues that I can't understand. Like why my personality changed dramatically after this experience into something that I didn't really like. I'm still not sure what the answer to that is, but I've assured myself that when I do stop caring and can actually be myself I'll be happy with who I am, because I know that my social anxiety was what kept stopping me in the past from really expressing myself, and it wouldn't make sense to say that no longer identifying with what creates my anxiety would somehow turn me into the opposite of the person I really think I am. So anyways, I guess that's off topic! But...I think I felt what you're thinking about when you say enlightenment. Maybe not true enlightenment, but I felt very strangely happy and released from everything.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Dale » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:37 am

Hi everybody, and happy new year! My inner guru wanted to chime in on this really great thread...

A big problem with writing about states of consciousness is that its difficult to get the point across via the medium. For example: "the best cookbook is a damn poor excuse for a meal, or the map is not the territory". Yet our labeling ego loves to use words and symbols, actually excels at it (nice for planning vacations :D )

However, my take on enlightenment is that it doesn't have squat to do with bliss, it's just the end of suffering. The suffering that comes from agonizing over the past and what "I" shoulda done or worrying about the dreaded event that's in the future. Instead, like the happy fool in the tarot deck, I'm just tooling along in the present enjoying the scenery, the fresh air, being alive. The precipice is there, and occasionally I step off and worry or regret, but I become aware of how painful it is to re-enter this state and get back to the present ASAP.

For me, this is peace. I no longer have to be perfect, and there's a huge relief in the knowing that no matter what happens in my life, I can always be in the moment. Whether its jail, or dying of cancer, or winning the lottery, or a first date with Nicole Kidman.

Sometimes I slip back into the swamp, but those times are getting further and further apart. I notice this when I see someone go into their 'pain-body' (get angry, emotional or ?). That used to always engage me, now it doesn't. I can just shake my head, mutter a little something or other to myself and move on with what I'm doing.

I really like the idea of sudden enlightenment. Some mystical poof and suddenly life is totally and completely different. One moment you're depressed and hatin' life, the next you're blissed out on a park bench, enjoying the afternoon sun and flowers. However, my way seems to be more one of gradual enlightenment :) , things come slowly.

And that's ok, too.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:19 am

Loved the post Dale. A real clear message that very much reflects my own experience. :)

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by kiki » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:17 am

Nicely said. I think you've got your finger on the pulse of what it is.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by coriolis » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:54 pm

Enlightenment is a word, meaning it is tied to a concept (or a constellation of concepts) in thoughtspace, all of which are subject to being sensationalized.
The only permanent state is Now, which, to the mind is an infinitesimally narrow gap between past and future.
But Now is all there is.
If "awareness" of "this" can push mind over the precipice of presence then enlightenment occurs.
Problem is enlightenment only happens Now and the mind quickly jumps back into control to reduce Now back to that conceptual, infinitesimally narrow gap between past and future.

Now is the only state.
Being that is enlightenment.

IMHO
Look deeply inside yourself and try to find yourself.
The ensuing failure is the true finding
---- Wu Hsin

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Kutso » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:39 pm

'The path to salvation is narrow, and is difficult to walk... as a razor's edge.'
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Suzanne » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:30 am

I'm going to speculate that one who is enlightened no longer seeks labels, including the condition of "enlightened." 8)

Personally, I prefer the term awakening. It is not one event, but a process. I've awakened from many futile dreams, one at a time, and I've been grateful for each bubble that has floated away. I forgot all about them and no longer crave them. That is freedom.

Today is beautiful. Today was beautiful yesterday, too. Faith is knowing that tomorrow will also be beautiful, but I don't have to anticipate it today. Today is enough.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by kiki » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:56 am

Nice post, Suzanne. I agree with your sentiments.
'The path to salvation is narrow, and is difficult to walk... as a razor's edge.'
This is one of those quotes that sounds really profound (and to every seeker it is) until it's realized that there is no path to salvation because there is no one to walk it. Without the "I" seeking salvation the "path" is revealed to be another illusion and the razor's edge of the imaginary me evaporates in the infinitely broad present moment.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Suzanne » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:41 am

Aggreed, Kiki. I'm in much better emotional health than ever and it's not hard: It gets easier and easier. The real razor's edge is trying to force the world to "give" you what you think you want, and living with constant disappointment. After a while, you realize the futility of it all and start looking for someone who has tried another way.

The first time you let go of some silly idea that you thought you required for happiness, it's the proverbial red sea parting. The angels sing. The sun bursts forth. You lighten. The weight of all that desire for unsubstantial things is lifted. The peace is revealed underneath.
And from there, you forgive others who chase desperately after their desires, and when you finally forgive others, you can begin to forgive yoursellf.

It is as it is.

Amen.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by astaroth » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:58 am

haha, well...

Enlightenment...

I just checked out the forum because this was again a day full of strange states of consciousness (the first part of the day was like a trip on some kind of drug) and the second part was only one huge confusion.
I now decide not to start a new thread again, like I wanted to do. You see, somehow I can't connect to the now. There is silence, it is beautiful and there is very quiet thought like "oh yeah, that's the really shit!" and then - booof! - thoughts come back, very fastly.
Returning to what's around me, stepping out of the dream, that doesn't work, because it is somehow fighting against the dream in a very subtle way (by just stepping out of it). So I let the mind do what it likes to not create any resistance to something which isn't real, haha.
And then... I find myself fantazising again, completely hypnotized.

So I came across Adyashanti who said that he also wasn't able to stay in silence and that it doesn't matter if there are any thoughts or not. So I tried to change the perspective from where thoughts are seen.

Some time ago I had the experience that I am god and that the world isn't real. I am the world, every moment, it is created by me. This was an unbelievable feeling, I tell you. I knew, whatever would happen in my world couldn't damage me. And I also saw that everywhere there is nothing. The things which are there are vey little part of reality. There is much more nothingness, everywhere. I could see thorugh the world. But I was still identified with "me", my false self.

It was like a state of super-ego-mode, because I was god and could do everything I wanted in this illusionary world (the whole univserse) I had created. Strange, I tell you.

I was very confused. Then I just read in this forum and understood that "I" was still searching for enlightenment... Can I be in comfort not to be enlightened? My mind and it's little baby called astaroth (which is writing right now) are very sharp thinkers, thinking and philosophizing about spirituality as often as they pop in. They will surely find something again to tell me a very clever story again. :lol: I always think "you almost got it" :lol:

just my personal 2 cents...

asta

astaroth
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Onceler » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:50 am

I like your 2 cents, Astaroth. It sounds like the old order is crumbling and you are making way for a new way of seeing/experiencing.

Hang in there and experience.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by starshine » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:09 am

Suzanne: Quite a change in posting since your first post in this thread. You are now present.

Astaroth: Re: "I am the world, every moment..."
This statement is self=contradictory. Two year olds often go through this stage before the world corrects them. Without death and time, some egos could believe this forever. Talk about eternal damnation.

I didn't originally answer fish-master since there seemed no point to it. His title question is Mu, that is, It can't be answered yes or no because the words pre-suppose the answer. Enlightenment is not about belief, it is not about sensation, it is not about time, it is not about who, it is not about giving anything up. It is simply about being. We don't need to prove it to him. We have had great fun believing in a cause and tieing ourselves in knots with that lable. Humor is the language of God. Peace.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Sw Anand Devagni. » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:08 pm

Dear all,

I haven't read the above posts, so apologies if my contribution appears incongruous.

However there are two types of enlightenment - state enlightenment and stage enlightenment. State enlightenment happens when you are one with all states of consciousness - waking, dreaming, deep sleep and can witness them all - constant consciousness.

Stage enlightenment is when you are one with all of the previously unfolded stages of consciousness up til now, which are ever evolving - archaic, magic, mythic, rational, pluralist, integrative, and beyond.

Bet you can't guess where I got that from, eh? :wink:

D

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by astaroth » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:58 pm

Hmmm...

Well... The thing about being. what I think about being is the awakening from the dream and being one with life and everything and everybody else behind the veil of the egoic concepts again. Okay, in reality, maybe there isn't a problem about being identified with the ego but when you are, it doesn't feel so. Wrong?

Hehe... I just passed through a state of a two-years-old? :lol: Well... I'm only 17 years older than a two-years-old... Maybe a bit late, okay... But I don't feel that adult yet. :lol: What I described was , looking back, but one more very clever concept of the mind I believed in, a concept which gave me super-power... The creator of my own personal universe :mrgreen: But it actually helped me "look through the world" and see it in a much less solid and serious way like in the normal crazy state of consciousness.

blessings,
asta
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by OnlyNow » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:07 pm

Perhaps enlightenment is just an absence of fear
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

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