Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

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Shion
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Post by Shion » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:55 pm

Thank you (Web) for this one.
This identity here is desperate now...

ib42
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by ib42 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:10 am

The one who questions is entitled to do so. I tend to agree, after tonights debacle on Oprah, that she and Tolle are members of that gang who are so filthy rich they feel they have the right and a duty to tell the rest of us lemmings how they live, how they feel, everything except the facts. America has long been a mecca for anyone with an idea to make people happy, rich and blissful, all at the same time ( i.e. Beatles and their ill-fated mahararishi trip). There are so many of these self-proclaimed gurus! I see no difference, really, between their followers and the idiots who make televangelists rich. I'm going to bow out for awhile,because all this stuff does is drive home deeper all my inadequacies and shortcoming, as if I needed reminding of them, and my inability to be rid of them all!
I have not met any enlightened people in the sense of totally selfless human beings. I have met a helluve lot who have a healthy self-interest (Oprah, Trump?), and who happily go through life in total denial of the 'elephant in the room.' Someone should write about how to really get over this extreme sensitivity some of us have, most of us here included. My estranged wife, a true pollyanna, is a great example of denial in action. Two very adult sons living with and sponging off her, bailing one of them out from jail at least 20 times from age 14 till now, 32!Both 'men' hardly working, yet she is blissfully unaware of what the rest of the family has seen and lamented for ages, to no avail.
My reason for bringing this personal story into the 'discussion' is simple. What she has is what I'm looking for. I'll never find it, because I do not have the capacity to ignore and suppress facts of life. She, and most of the world, does.

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DBroadhurst
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by DBroadhurst » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:28 am

ib42 wrote: ...I have not met any enlightened people in the sense of totally selfless human beings...
Perhaps totally selfless beings would soon fall prey to the more vicious
people in this world. They might not even be able to survive here.

But I've met a handful who were both wise and compassionate. And, of that few,
I can count on less than all the fingers one hand, the number of them who made
any sort of mystical professions.

From the perspective of my perception, at least, such "realized saints" are
either very rare, or they do a good job of staying out of sight.

Which is OK -- I have no expectations along those lines, and am happy with
what has so far come my way. We live in a wonderful cosmos; and I'm
convinced that the part we generally perceive and reflect upon with our
minds, is but an insignificant speck, among endless possibilities.

Somewhere, in that vastness, are a few beings of the type you mention --
that is enough. One billion-billionth of infinity...

... is still infinite.

D.
"Let all my songs gather together their diverse strains into a single current and flow to a
sea of silence, in one salutation to Thee." - Rabindranath Tagore

ib42
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by ib42 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:15 am

Thank you for the very calm response. Believe it or not, I felt a softness and a sense of deep love and acceptance in reading it. You must be a very nice, in the sense of good and self-realized, person.
Thank you.

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DBroadhurst
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by DBroadhurst » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:32 am

ib42 wrote: ...a sense of deep love and acceptance in reading...
Probably just another aspect of your own self -- seeming to communicate
to you, in a virtual forum, under a somewhat different name and persona.

Then again, that may not quite be right, either -- who knows?

D.
"Let all my songs gather together their diverse strains into a single current and flow to a
sea of silence, in one salutation to Thee." - Rabindranath Tagore

Jonatan
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Jonatan » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:29 am

I was reading this and it reminded me of this thread :)
The mind loves the idea of enlightenment being some kind of distant, virtually unobtainable, perfect place of permanent bliss, free from suffering and full of omniscience, omnipresence and lots of other important ‘omni’s’ stomping around, shouting the odds and saving the world. And of course, because all this glory and specialness has to be attained, it seems there has to be a long haul through the dark night of the soul, endless past karmas, original sin, right-thinking, right action and preparation for the bardos. “It is a tale told by a fool, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
- http://www.theopensecret.com

Josiah
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Josiah » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:57 pm

There are a lot of people selling the secret to life, by which I/they mean financial well-being, family unity and multi-level nourishment, career/intellectual/artistic fulfillment, peace of mind, understanding of the true nature of life and life's events, and other things which promise freedom from suffering and ambiguity, restlessness and inertia.

A few are selling/offering something more like inner peace, stresslessness, equanimity in the face of all possible circumstances.

And some are selling/offering spiritual and unavoidably intellectual (despite admonitions to avoid "thinking") journeys into the nature of non-physical reality and the cosmos.

And if any of these are pursued, there are probably understandings and skills they don't teach in schools (or most churches) that are, at least in the mundane/lesser sense of the word, "enlightening".

And if you find you have stopped second-guessing yourself and are no longer focusing on fear, suffering, problems, victimhood, unfulfilled needs and desires, and etc., you may have as much "enlightenment" as you need.

Ben
Last edited by Josiah on Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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aquarius123esoteric
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by aquarius123esoteric » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:29 pm

Dear Friend - I do not believe that anyone can sell us the secret of life; no wonder that none of those succeeded who have tried in the past or are doing so now. We all carry it within and it is for us to discover what it consists of. With love - Aquarius

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Webwanderer
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:00 am

aquarius123esoteric wrote:Dear Friend - I do not believe that anyone can sell us the secret of life; no wonder that none of those succeeded who have tried in the past or are doing so now. We all carry it within and it is for us to discover what it consists of. With love - Aquarius
Yes, it is true (as is well known), that all understanding is found within what we already are; but if one is painfully lost in a mental world of misperception and confusion about what one's true nature is, how much is it worth to have someone point us in a direction where clarity and peace may be found?

ib42
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by ib42 » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:40 am

I'll admit that I am flit around a bit in my reading of similar books. But upon reading 'Stillness speaks' I feel more, well, STILL. no, not blissful, but definitely less agitated mentally, just by saying the title silently.
This is a mighty good book to read as a follw up to PON. The signs which point are much simpler to listen toand follow.

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