Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

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fifi
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by fifi » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:14 pm

Once I got struck by lightening. Before that I had several encounters whereby lightening almost struck me. Sadly I'm not enlightened :( so i cannot say how it would be to be en-lightened. But I can say this....Once you get to 'watchtower status', you get struck by lightening' metaphorically speaking, because your conducting wire(way) is raw and open. Thats your soul. and you begin co-creation with the universe. Your individuality will shine through, and your Internal power will be revealed. Now as for all mightyness. Me not know that part :arrow: :arrow: you just have to travel further afield :D

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Kutso » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:12 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c

Adyashanti talking about what enlightenment is.
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Suzanne » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:58 am

Dear Asta,

Please allow this 40-something to applaud you for thinking about awareness at all before your 20th year. Bravo! How much better the world would be if teenagers stopped thinking about consumption and image and considered what their lives might amount to with some introspection.

You're certainly way ahead of me! I didn't contemplate these ideas until 20 years after you did.

I know you're not going to like my next sentence, but I think you'll forgive me: Some of this doesn't make sense until you've been out in the world on your own and learned alot of things the hard way. It does take struggling with your own and other's egos to realize how futile most desires are. That will come with time.

You're well on your way! I wouldn't bet a dollar against you!
Suzanne

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Joshua » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:43 am

piotr624 wrote:I just wanted to post my experience with "enlightenment". I read Eckhart's book about awakening to your life's purpose, and found that one part of the book pretty much described the exact same state of mind that I had achieved previously.
I guess that what draws so many people to Tolle is that he describes an experience that resonates with them in various ways. And he is one of the only few people telling them that they are completely normal for having this experience. And then he goes on to explain the experience in a modern framework.

To have that kind of experience, and not have anyone around to relate it to who will understand or value it can be alienating and frightening - to experience the death of the ego alone. You might think that you are going crazy. Then you find Tolle and you realize, hey I`m not crazy, there are other people having this experience, too. This is not only normal, it`s necessary, inevitable, wonderful.

No one has the same exact experience. But there are main similarities. It`s nice to be able to come together sometimes with people who value space consciousness.

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Joshua
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Joshua » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:45 am

OnlyNow wrote:Perhaps enlightenment is just an absence of fear
It`s the absence of fear, and all other kinds of pain.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by lucid » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:15 pm

Joshua wrote:
OnlyNow wrote:Perhaps enlightenment is just an absence of fear
It`s the absence of fear, and all other kinds of pain.

Enlightenment is a just a word we use to describe the ineffable, although I've seen on this forum the word "normalment", which I find to be much friendlier.

Normalment definitely is not the "absence" of anything, I'd say, and defnitely not pain, not even suffering.
The "presence" of everything comes closer.
One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing - Socrates

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by D'ray » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:21 pm

lucid wrote:
Joshua wrote:
OnlyNow wrote:Perhaps enlightenment is just an absence of fear
It`s the absence of fear, and all other kinds of pain.

Enlightenment is a just a word we use to describe the ineffable, although I've seen on this forum the word "normalment", which I find to be much friendlier.

Normalment definitely is not the "absence" of anything, I'd say, and defnitely not pain, not even suffering.
The "presence" of everything comes closer.
Yes. You are the fear and you are the witness of your fear. You are everything, we live in a non-duality.
There's no "I" to become enlightened. The "I" can have spiritual experiences.

DON'T resist the RESISTANCE! The resistance is there. Walk into it. Feel it. Become one with it.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Joshua » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:15 am

OK. I like word games and so I can dig that definition. No absence. Enlightenment is awareness to the presence of everything, including pain. Lots of it. :shock:

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:14 pm

Joshua wrote:OK. I like word games and so I can dig that definition. No absence. Enlightenment is awareness to the presence of everything, including pain. Lots of it.
I find the word "enlightenment" a bit enigmatic. Does it refer to a particular "state", or a relative perspective? For example: If someone says "enlighten me", are they not referring to some additional bit of information that enhances ones understanding? Is enlightenment not just a more encompassing perspective than was previously held? Or is it a reference to some ultimate state of awareness that is all inclusive? Comparitive or specific? :shock:

"Enlightenment is awareness to the presence of everything" Taken literally there are a lot of things out there, a whole universe of them, both macro and micro.

A little refinement: Enlightenment is the awareness of everthing present. :? It still seems to be a word game.

Maybe we're better off without such a definitive label. The problem with such a label is that it tends to set a goal to achieve, and that is the domain of ego/mind. Maybe it's necessary for the mind to hold a desire to know truth before clear awareness can be regained. But desire is still an asperation for some goal that is preferable to present conditions. And as we have discussed, awakening comes through acceptance of what is, not rejection.

Ah life! What a wonderful enigma. If we took this too seriously we'd all get depressed. I think someone who realized this must have coined the term "lighten up"

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Kutso » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:04 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Does it refer to a particular "state", or a relative perspective?
I'm of the opinion that the Enlightenment we are all after is not a state at all. If it would be a state then it would be just another mind thing. The mind is of different states. Enlightenment is that which is always present, whatever the state of the mind is.

Kutso
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:14 am

Kutso wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:Does it refer to a particular "state", or a relative perspective?
I'm of the opinion that the Enlightenment we are all after is not a state at all. If it would be a state then it would be just another mind thing. The mind is of different states. Enlightenment is that which is always present, whatever the state of the mind is.

Kutso
Then what of the "natural state"?

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Kutso » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:34 am

Webwanderer wrote:Then what of the "natural state"?
I don't really see what you mean by "natural state". Clarify.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:58 pm

Kutso wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:Then what of the "natural state"?
I don't really see what you mean by "natural state". Clarify.

Kutso
The Natural State is what remains when all artificial constructs are dropped from awareness. It is non-dual perception. It is that which is sought by genuine seekers of Truth(though they may not yet know it). The signature line below points directly to this state.

See for yourself.

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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Kutso » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:39 pm

Webwanderer wrote:The Natural State is what remains when all artificial constructs are dropped from awareness. It is non-dual perception. It is that which is sought by genuine seekers of Truth(though they may not yet know it). The signature line below points directly to this state.

See for yourself.
I don't see it as a state. A state depends on other states for it's own existence. Your true nature depends on nothing. It is one. In a way you can say that it's all the states, because it's everything. It doesn't need to be compared with other states. Your true nature is present even when the so called artificial constructs still are in place. And therefor I don't like to call it a state, because that implies that you have a nonreality and a reality(The Natural State), when infact there only is reality.

Kutso
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Re: Who Truly Beliieves in Enlightnment? Is it sensationalized?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:03 pm

Kutso wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:The Natural State is what remains when all artificial constructs are dropped from awareness. It is non-dual perception. It is that which is sought by genuine seekers of Truth(though they may not yet know it). The signature line below points directly to this state.

See for yourself.


I don't see it as a state. A state depends on other states for it's own existence. Your true nature depends on nothing. It is one. In a way you can say that it's all the states, because it's everything. It doesn't need to be compared with other states. Your true nature is present even when the so called artificial constructs still are in place. And therefor I don't like to call it a state, because that implies that you have a nonreality and a reality(The Natural State), when infact there only is reality.

Kutso
As you wish. :)

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