Size of Painbody

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weichen
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Size of Painbody

Post by weichen » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:32 pm

In the case of Nazi in world war 2, collective painbody is collective madness, a much more destructive form of madness than individual madness.

But collective painbody is NOT always collective madness. When a group of people share their pains with one another, some space is realized through sharing. The highly destructive nature of Nazi collective ego is not due to the sharing, but due to unwillingness to share pain with rest of the world, thus creates deeper rooted conflicts.


Even within an individual, a painbody grow in size as the result of several unresolved issue merge (sharing). The destructiveness of larger painbody appears to be due to this merging. But in fact it is due to the unwillingness of merging of pains, thus lead to greater inner conflicts.

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BrahmanEternal
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by BrahmanEternal » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:50 pm

On one hand i understand Hitler , who would want to share pain with Jew bankers all around ?
What do we do every day to allow free expression of form?
Globalization , what a nice system, totally fu...ed up this world.
Gangaji is right.... we are all nazis in many moments of life.
I hope tolle and oprah bring end of this.
Free of need to be Free.

Vpopov81
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Vpopov81 » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:00 pm

Weichen I feel that alot of the advice you give is wrong. It might sound like a good idea to share pain but by sharing it you will actually be reliving it and thus reenergising it. I am not saying you should keep things bottled up, because the unobserved mind will only knows repression or expression. The mystic path has us watch suffering as it arsies and as it passes away, and any holding on to suffering that you do or that torments you is actually the result of unenlightened mind and nothing to do with not sharing. The only reason I vocalize my disagreement with you is because you make posts that are advice to others which I feel you are not qualified to give and will actually be harmful.
Last edited by Vpopov81 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

weichen
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by weichen » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:22 pm

Indeed, 'sharing' is such a fuzzy word. Thank you, vpopv81 for the precious and honest feedback. I would appreciate it if you could also voice disagreement to other of my posts, because I benefited from such disagreement and I feel other members would also benefit.

One thing I hope for the field of spiritual teaching is that spiritual teachers can openly voice their disagreement to each other without worrying about making enemy. This is the case in the field of science, but not the case in field of spirituality (a lot of cheap praise on the cover of worthless books)


When I brought out the example of Nazi and world war 2, I should explain that in detail. One Nazi solder wants money and power, he meets with another Nazi solider who also want that, they decide to wage a war, and see that this would solve their pain. This is an example of individual painbody merging into a bigger painbody. But in this case, since these Nazi soliders unconsciously neglected the potential pain they would inflict on the people whom they are attacking, thus this is an example of collective painbody growth leads to growth of collective madness.

In contrast, one forum member has some unresolved issue and some nice tricks he has learned, he comes to the forum and share both his problems and tricks he learned, through sharing with other members, some of his unresolved issues meet with solutions (from another forum members). Through solving unresolved issue (by means of sharing), some mind space is released from his head (so he no longer spends thinking on these issues anymore). Some of the unresolved issues simply add to the list of unresolved ET forum issues(thus making the collective painbody of this forum grow in size). This is an example of collective painbody grow, but not collective madness grow.

If you compare the above two examples, and you may gain the same insight I got: it is not the merging of painbody that is causing the increase of the collective madness, but rather it is the separation between the Nazi solider from other poor people they are about to invade. Deeper separation cause deeper madness. This ET forum does not ignore other human pain, it does not inflict pain to other people, thus I felt that it leads to more space. Even though the collective unsolved issue list grow, but it is distributed to many forum members, thus each individual is relieved as the membership size grow.

I created this thread for a few purpose
1. I want to bring out the concept of painbody size in the open for discussion.
2. I felt that ET's teaching can be misunderstood if people simply assume that collective painbody is always a bad thing.
3. I want to point out that it is the separation that is causing the pain increase rather than the connecting of individual pain.
4. I want to use the collective painbody example to take a look at the personal painbody growth. I felt that merging of painbody (painbody grow in size) actually creates some space(e.g. pain of being dumped by first girl friend merging with pain of being dumped by second girl friend). The madness is not due to this merging, but due to unwilling to merge (the pain of being dumped by other people unwiling to merge with the pain of not knowing how to understand others and serve others).

Vpopov81
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Vpopov81 » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:55 am

Weichen I feel that sometimes you tend to get a little over conceptual with your posts. I don't feel you know enough about the subjects of collective insanity and painbodies growing and merging to be making posts that have an instructive tone to them. I am glad that you grow and learn when challenged, and I deeply respect your mature response to my post even though I expressed some frustration (bows.) That said I don't have much to add to this discussion as I myself don't have knowledge of these things.

Peace

honeysg
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by honeysg » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:01 am

Hello,

I would think that sharing the feelings of pain or sorrow may help if the intention is to bring them out under the light of consciousness. It applies to both the pains accumulated in the past and new pains incurred at this moment. Reliving a past pain sometimes is neccessary to disolve it completely; of course, with the condition that you feel it fully without blaming anyone, even yourself for it. My parents used to teach me an old saying that "share a pain, the pain will half, share a joy, the joy'll double" - I 've benefited from its wisdom. Of course, sharing pains in service of the ego brings more harms than benefits, it's the destructive madness.

Cheers to you all.

Honeysg

lakeswimr
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by lakeswimr » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:13 am

BrahmanEternal wrote:On one hand i understand Hitler , who would want to share pain with Jew bankers all around ?
What do we do every day to allow free expression of form?
Globalization , what a nice system, totally fu...ed up this world.
Gangaji is right.... we are all nazis in many moments of life.
I hope tolle and oprah bring end of this.
I don't understand your first sentence. Can you explain?

Amris
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Amris » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:43 pm

I do not agree that sharing painbody helps anyone in any way. Much suffering is created by the pain body's need to feed itself. Taking on someone else's painbody just increases the size of your own, and does not diminish theirs at all. If everyone freed themselves from their own painbody, there would be no one feeding people's painbodies anymore. A person without ego/pain body does not create suffering for others. There is no greed, warmongering, fearmongering, or other destruction actions once the ego /painbody is gone.

The bigger the painbody, the more destructive. The last thing that would be helpful is making your pain body bigger.

The answer is to no longer identify with your own pain body, and leave other people to deal with theirs. It does not resonate with me at all to hear, "I increase the size of my painbody and increase my suffering in order to decrease yours," knowing that pain bodies really have no redeeming qualities. It is like mud on my favorite tan jeans. If I get mud on my jeans, I wash it off, I don't add to it on purpose.

I think that you are confusing "taking on painbodies" with compassion. Compassion can be felt without taking on the other person's painbody.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:38 pm

Amris wrote: I think that you are confusing "taking on painbodies" with compassion. Compassion can be felt without taking on the other person's painbody.
I agree with you Amris. One can provide an atmosphere of non-reflective presence in which another can vent a painful experience, and in that allow the other an opportunity to free themselves from some painbody energy. But it is not necessary to take on the pain. If one is clearly present, with a knowingness that the other is releasing the pain, guidance can be offered to help them see clearly that the pain is just a passing event.

This may be what the earlier posters were refering to in being fully present with the others painful expressions, sensing them, but not necessarily adopting them into ones own painbody. It is a temporary acceptance of the present reality for the purpose of helping another gain clarity.

And welcome to the forum :D

Vpopov81
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Vpopov81 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:52 pm

I don't think sharing painbody helps anyone. I think it reenergizes it instead of releasing it. Presence transmutes it and yes if someones painbody is erupting in front of you your presence can help awaken them in the midst of it, but the person with the heavy painbody can only transmute it through the power of their own presence and cut off the fuel supply of thought and emotion.

Amris
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by Amris » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:11 am

Webwanderer wrote:And welcome to the forum :D
Thank you! It is delightful!

sailing
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Re: Size of Painbody

Post by sailing » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:55 am

BrahmanEternal wrote:On one hand i understand Hitler , who would want to share pain with Jew bankers all around ?
What do we do every day to allow free expression of form?
Globalization , what a nice system, totally fu...ed up this world.
Gangaji is right.... we are all nazis in many moments of life.
I hope tolle and oprah bring end of this.
You know what I was thinking? Its not up to tolle and oprah, its up to you and me. :idea:

Your sister, sailing
"We are sailing, stormy waters, to be near you, to be free."
Rod Stewart

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