Collective Ego/Collective Pain Body

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heidi
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Collective Ego/Collective Pain Body

Post by heidi » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:15 pm

heidi wrote:
On a big scale the US uses fear to rationalize attacking others and taking away privacy, when in fact, if as a country we just became present and alert, most terrorism couldn't happen.


Heidi, if I recall correctly you started this board in part because another board wouldn't allow you to explore the connections between your spiritual and political perspectives.
As easily as we can talk about fear mongering in the US, we can also delve into terrorism, and what that's all about.

Go for it, Phil and anyone else- as it relates to Tolle's perspective on the ego's evolution and what it brings to humanity, society, the planet...
Last edited by heidi on Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JedEye » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:07 pm

I have been to U.S. two years ago. And from my point of view (polish kid point of view) american people have some ego patterns in common, which are i.e. different from patterns in my country.
One pattern that is very strong is when americans :) talk about country or politics. There is some energy in the background, my U.S.A. is important, I am important, I am proud.
In my country when someone talks about any country there is - it`s just a country - energy in the background.
And my suggestion is that it`s like with ego. The more happens to the ego, the more problems it has, the stronger it gets.
This collective ego mindform of my important country might react with some other countries that think we and our country are important. That might bring terrorism.
Just a concept:) what do You think?

And all the media they bring a lot of useless fear. They can make big and serious thing out of small, one day thing.

A country can`t be present. But really present individuals bring a wave that touches masses.
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Post by spatialbean » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:17 pm

Absolutely correct, JedEye.



Love,
Claudia




Ok, put the scary green thing back.

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Post by phil » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:18 am

Fear mongering.

What's the right way to say this? This is a handshake extended across the table, not a gotcha, and I want it come to across like that. Help me out with the wordage please.

Unity, instead of divisiveness.

I'd love to see _all of us_, whatever our political persuasion, unify around a mutual shared admission that we're _all_ playing the fear game, and maybe given the seriousness of the times, the mature thing would be to cool it a bit. Put the nation above our personal ego-political agendas once in awhile.

When the repubs get in trouble, they honk the big scary Osama horn. When the demos get in trouble, they honk the big scary Bush horn.

Same difference.

The leaders on both sides probably have too much invested in the past to come this clean, but actually you and I the typical citizen are the real leaders in this democracy.

And whatever happens next is on us.

So maybe we regular folks can lead the way in to a more adult future, and do it together.
JedEye wrote:And all the media they bring a lot of useless fear. They can make big and serious thing out of small, one day thing.
Great point JedEye, I think you're aiming right at the ego / terrorism connection already.

Maybe we could begin by admitting to ourselves that the media very scientifically feeds us exactly what we, as a group, want to eat.

If we know that the media is selling fear and mindless inane stimulation, we know that because we watch it. :-)

C'mon now my friends, this isn't about "them", it's about us.

I hope that's an appropriate place to begin what could become a fascinating discussion.

Thanks for the green flag, and your thread starting comments Heidi.

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Post by heidi » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:06 am

Yes, fear mongering.
It's not a judgement, it's a fact. It's going on and we're conscious of it, and any politically correct wordage ain't gonna change that fact or make us less knowing.

Look at TV news and commericals. You can still be in this world and see what is and be conscious of it.

And PS - we don't live in a democracy, we live in a corpocracy where business interests make the decisions no matter how we vote. Point in case - my neighborhood nuke is up for relicensing. Citizens have no say. It's the NRC, who are controlled by congress who are controlled by the industry. I'm present in this knowledge.
Last edited by heidi on Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by phil » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:15 pm

heidi wrote:Yes, fear mongering. It's not a judgement, it's a fact.
Agreed. A fact. Is it a fact we're all involved in, or is fear mongering limited to "them, the other guy"?

I'm trying to steer clear of examples here because I'm afraid that will just take us back in to the same old partisanship loop. I'm hoping readers can examine the messages being offered by all sides, and see the fear mongering for themselves.

Not trying to make a big guilt trip out of this. Hey, none of us are perfect, that's hardly a news flash. Just trying to acknowledge how united we are in imperfection, and move on from there.
heidi wrote:And PS - we don't live in a democracy, we live in a corpocracy where business interests make the decisions no matter how we vote.
I politely decline to play this victim role, and become part of this fear mongering. :-)

Tell us exactly which businesses are doing which harmful things, make a clear case why we should be involved, and then we will all have the choice to stop buying stuff from that business.

If we keep on buying from that company anyway, whatever happens next is on us.

It's fun having this conversation with you Heidi. You mentioned that when you go to rallys you cross the street to talk to the other side. It's nice we can do that here as well. It's great that we can leverage that which we have in common to address those ways in which we may be different.

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Post by phil » Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:33 pm

Collective Consciousness/Unconsciousness.

Let's be careful this concept doesn't become one more vehicle for division.

"Ah, if only everyone would adopt our religion, then the planet would be saved. "

Hmm, that sounds familiar. Where have we heard that one before? The Spanish Inquisition? Osama bin Laden? Bringing native peoples to Jesus at the point of a gun?

As Nowsters we have a constructive useful tool to put on the table. This does not make us better, higher or more special than a whole bunch of other quite different people who also have valuble contributions to make.

You know those errands we all have around the house? Make dinner, clean the bathroom, take out the trash, etc.

That's what politics is. A bunch of mundane chores we need to attend to collectively.

Using our spirituality to pose ourselves as being somehow "above all that" is really no different than saying, "I'm too enlightened to have to clean the bathroom, I'll leave that to the maid."

Having effectively placed myself above many readers here, I now retire to see if any of them are alert enough to call me on it. :-)

Your turn!

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Post by heidi » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:05 pm

No victim here. Just saying what is. It needn't have energy attached to it unless you choose. And that's what that whole collective ego thing is about. JedEye sees it. We see it. We needn't say, bad collective ego, we just want to acknowledge it, and the effect it has on the world.

I think examples help us become conscious of stuff. My country right or wrong. Sure, fine but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to speak my truth or act my conscience. I look at it the same way I do with my marriage. I love unconditionally even though we have fundamental differences of opinion politically. In fact, the last election was a huge lesson about unconditional love for me, it was a huge lesson about acceptance; it was a huge lesson about presence. It's all good. My daughter is another example. I stand in a silent vigil once a week. Many collective egos say I can't disagree since that's not supporting the troops - my country. Well, hell, I support the troops in many ways, I have a big program that does that. I can support them completely and still disagree with their boss.

So, back on topic about the collective ego. How about riots over a cartoon?
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Post by phil » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:37 pm

heidi wrote: We needn't say, bad collective ego, we just want to acknowledge it, and the effect it has on the world.
OK, I like it. Not judgement, just observing facts. The interesting bit for me is, can we observe our own participation in the collective ego, or are we above it, outside of it? Are we all together in this process, or will this become one more way we divide ourselves from one another?
heidi wrote:So, back on topic about the collective ego. How about riots over a cartoon?
How about closer to home? How about the riots we have here on the board :-) in respect to my belief, your belief etc?

PS: This little part of the collective ego says political disagreement is great, to the degree it puts new constructive solutions on the table.

As example, wouldn't it be cool if none of us, on any side, ever referrred to the other side at all?

That would leave us with nothing to say, except to offer our own constructive ideas.

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Post by JedEye » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:05 pm

It is really hard to see colective ego or ego energy of the country. Because it is everywhere.
You have to get out to totally different country for a long while. And when you come back you get sucked into it.
You guys in U.S. don`t have so heavy one :)
In my country there is collective sadness, grey-ness and problems thinking. If someone isn`t dealing with milion of heavy problems he is weird. It doesn`t happen often.
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Post by be-lank » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:21 pm

Jedeye wrote:
You guys in U.S. don`t have so heavy one
Eckhart has said this too. Because this is a "new" country, the pain body is not as heavy as the countries who have a long history. He mentions every country having a collective pain body. He says he feels it everytime he gets off the plane in Germany. Very heavy, oppressive, grey- is the impression. Like Jedeye mentioned.

(I like your new little fella, Jedeye!)

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Post by be-lank » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:26 pm

Heidi wrote:
We don't live in a democracy, we live in a corpocracy where business interests make the decisions no matter how we vote.

Amen Sister!

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Post by be-lank » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:37 pm

Phil wrote:
If we keep on buying from that company anyway, whatever happens next is on us.
True! We really could use some good leaders here- not politicians.
But most of all, Americans have to be willing to.. here's the dreaded word.. Sacrifice somewhat. And you know that we of Manifest Destiny- are not interested in that- at all.

But not to worry. If we want to play the history game, everything is right on target! Countries rise. Countries fall. All comes, and goes.

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Post by phil » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:45 pm

heidi wrote:So, back on topic about the collective ego. How about riots over a cartoon?
Trying to stick with ya Heidi. So many interesting angles being raised, it's a bit of a struggle staying with one thing.

OK, riots. Me vs. the other, building the me through conflict. Any conflict will do.

How might we begin to lighten the load of this "other" business?

I observe a lot of "otherness" in how we in the West have discussed the cartoon riots. Those silly crazy people way over there somewhere, how could they possibly be so stupid etc.

And within the spiritual community, that sense of otherness seems even stronger.

My sense is that when people are dirt poor, with little hope for the future, their beliefs are all they have. Challenge their beliefs, and you're challenging their very existence.

You can see the same thing when very troubled people reach out for any religion, including this one. Poke at their beliefs, and you will get your hand bitten quick.

You and I are fabulously wealthy. We have Tivo, the Net, a future, and God only knows how many thousands of ways to fill up the emptiness with noise. So if someone makes a cartoon of our beliefs, we can afford to be above it all, because we still have somewhere to hide.

Take away the Tivo, and our hopes for the future, and it's you and me out there in the streets.

Step back a second. Imagine some blowhard like me enters this forum and starts posting embarrassing cartoons of Tolle in compromising positions. Use your imagination.

Ya think some of us, maybe all of us, might give that person some major poop?

Let's try to surrender the otherness.

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Post by spatialbean » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:57 pm

Let's try to surrender the otherness.
Beautiful :!:
Last edited by spatialbean on Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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