Future = Illusion?

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The future is an illusion (what say you)

The above statement is true.
7
88%
The above statement is false.
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

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Narz
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Future = Illusion?

Post by Narz » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:33 am

Hi all. It's been awhile. Just replied to one of my Old threads and noticed this comment "the focus is in the future, an illusion."

At first bluff I'm sure nearly everyone here would agree that the future is an illusion.

But I'm skeptical. Is tomorrow's sunrise an illusion? Is the bus that is set to arrive in 10 minutes an illusion? Certainly people don't live their lives as if this is so because, well frankly, they (including you) don't believe it is.

Just my two cents.

If a person convinces themselves that planning ahead and being present are mutually exclusive than the condemn themselves to a large percentage of their lives outside the flow/present (how much depends on their lives and occupations).

Personally I believe this is BS. Certainly it is easy to get "caught up" in daydreaming about the future but I don't believe any planning automatically disconnects a person from "this moment". Conversely, many of the moments I remember (uh-oh, not allowed to do that either :)) most fondly are of times when I was filled with very much hope and my life was filled with much planning and yet, at the same time, I was very much in the moment also, talking walks with my cats late at night, dancing around to music and really hearing the lyrics and feeling what the music and the words did to me, etc.

That's my two cents. Please contribute your own to the pot. :)
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narz » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:40 am

I'd like to add that, in my opinion, the ability to distinguish between a future possibility that truly resonates with one's greatest self vs. one that will lead to pain/disillusionment is one of the greatest skills to hone (besides that of enjoying life, i.e. : the present).

The idea that if one is truly enjoying life now that knowing the right thing to do next will automatically follow is not one that has shown itself to be true, in my experience.

But again, this is not my blog, this is a discussion board and thus, I am interested in what others have to say on the subject. :)
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by meaname » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:37 pm

Emptiness is the ground all words rise from...
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by no won » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:26 am

You will find at a moment like this you are most likely to be fully present and react now
Only the ego reacts, are you lucky to have an ego that reacts.

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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:48 am

If I first read time is an illusion, I just let it be. If I am in the now, I experience it as true. But it is hardly (not?) understandable by the mind. I give it a try anyway:

In the world of form, time seems to be real. It is the changing of form, isn't it? Even a clock itself is the changing of form. This changing (i.e. aging) gives the expression of time. Would there be time, if there would be no change in form? Nobody could recognize time, since everything would be still.

Being is still, and it does not change. So in being, which is what we are, there is no time.
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:06 am

Related to this subject of time is the question of "how long is 'now'?" Here http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/k ... 1/05112919 is one answer from a professional journal suggesting it is from 10 milliseconds up to several hours...let your mind grind away on that for eternity... :)

I think it varies, depending on what we are doing. Climbing a precipitous peak in a rainstorm can be three hours in the now. Grabbing a couple of moments of closed-eye silence between two classes would be less time in the now.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:58 am

Nice find clone. So, anyone willing to spring the $42? :D I'm very curious to read that.
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Fri May 02, 2008 2:05 am

Narz wrote:But I'm skeptical. Is tomorrow's sunrise an illusion? Is the bus that is set to arrive in 10 minutes an illusion? Certainly people don't live their lives as if this is so because, well frankly, they (including you) don't believe it is.
I like to add some insight to this thread, because the statement "future (and past) = illusion" is pretty easy to know as true:

It is true, because neither past nor future do ever really exist. There is always only the now. If you use another language and say instead of illusion, existence or even clearer "are", as in:

future does not exist (right now)
or
future is not there (right now)

it gets clearer.

Future and Past are concepts, but they don't exist. There were and will be other moments, yes. But you can access them only when they were or come. This may seem like splitting hairs, but only to the non-awaken mind, which is not centered in the real truth.

So, the question: "Is the bus that is set to arrive in 10 minutes an illusion?" is so hilarious obviousely a "yes". And why? Because the bus is not there :)

If you are in the moment when the bus arrives (10 Minutes later), then the bus is there. It is no illusion. But wait, it is not the future anymore, it is the Now.
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Sat May 03, 2008 1:12 am

Eckhart says it similar at the end of this webcast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGKsG_9zrZg
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narz » Sat May 03, 2008 11:27 am

Narayan wrote:
Narz wrote:But I'm skeptical. Is tomorrow's sunrise an illusion? Is the bus that is set to arrive in 10 minutes an illusion? Certainly people don't live their lives as if this is so because, well frankly, they (including you) don't believe it is.
I like to add some insight to this thread, because the statement "future (and past) = illusion" is pretty easy to know as true:

It is true, because neither past nor future do ever really exist. There is always only the now. If you use another language and say instead of illusion, existence or even clearer "are", as in:

future does not exist (right now)
or
future is not there (right now)

it gets clearer.

Future and Past are concepts, but they don't exist. There were and will be other moments, yes. But you can access them only when they were or come. This may seem like splitting hairs, but only to the non-awaken mind, which is not centered in the real truth.

So, the question: "Is the bus that is set to arrive in 10 minutes an illusion?" is so hilarious obviousely a "yes". And why? Because the bus is not there :)
The bus is there. It's just not "here".

Awareness of things not directly perceivable is an important part of functioning in the world.

I see what you're saying though. Technically when the future comes, it will be now.

With that in mind, I wonder, how is it possible to be "outside of now"? Thinking about the future you're still in the now. For the future is just a projection of the ideas you have in your head now. The question is I guess (when planning to catch the bus anyway), how good are you at predicting future nows with accuracy?
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Sat May 03, 2008 1:55 pm

Narz wrote:I see what you're saying though. Technically when the future comes, it will be now.
Yes, exactly! And this "technically view" is the only real. The others do not exist, except in the mind.

With the example of the bus, as I said we seem to realize time as the change of form. So if you could see this bus in the moment, it moves through space to you, then there is another moment when it is there. We experienced time. If there would absolutely no movement or change (even no movement of thoughts or feelings), time would not make any sense.
Narz wrote:The bus is there. It's just not "here".
To take another example, which is even more suitable: Let's take the answer you will write to this posting of me. Where is this posting now? It does not exist. It exists in a projected future in my mind, in your mind and maybe in some minds of other readers ;) But it is an illusion (in the sense that it does not exist), until you write it in the moment you write it and comes to be. It could not be written at all.

The moment you create the posting in your head, there is the creation of it, in that very moment. And then you write it on the computer into this forum, and bring it into existence in the very moment. Then it is real. Where was this before (in analogy to the bus arriving)? Well you could say it was in the unmanifested, in the field of all possibilities. (if this would make any sense)
An observer could see it then also, he or she could not get any idea of the fact, that you are going to write a posting. So how could this future be real, if it is only real for you?
Narz wrote:With that in mind, I wonder, how is it possible to be "outside of now"? Thinking about the future you're still in the now. For the future is just a projection of the ideas you have in your head now. The question is I guess (when planning to catch the bus anyway), how good are you at predicting future nows with accuracy?
Someone very good at goal-setting said: "Why are goals so important? Answer: they create the future in advance." So we can project the future in our head and then make a first creation there. Then writing it down as a goal and acting from there (hopefully present in the moment) is the second creation. This is a power of the mind. And yes, you can practise goal-setting. I did it and it worked pretty nice. It helps to become a conscious creator of my future in the world of form, hopefully executed mostly present in the Now.
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Thu May 08, 2008 2:24 am

Narz wrote:I wonder, how is it possible to be "outside of now"? Thinking about the future you're still in the now. For the future is just a projection of the ideas you have in your head now.
Oh sorry, I overlooked this.

It is all about your awareness.

Sure, for an outside observer, you (your body) is in the now, that is trivial. But what about your awareness, your true essence? If you are thinking of the future continiously and you project yourself to the future and want to be there, you are not aware of the moment that is. You are not present. Then you are not in the Now but creating "psychological time" (s. TPON, page 57).

It means, as Eckhart describes it beautifully here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=t8kA4eu_r88 starting @1:30, that you deny the moment. You want to have the moment in the future, but not the moment in the Now. That's not being present in the Now. That's being unconscious.

Seeing the future and then going back to be present in the Now and work toward your goal in the future seems to be the way.

I hope that made sense.
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narz » Thu May 08, 2008 11:28 am

Thanks for your thoughtful replies Narayan. (uh-oh, I said a bad word :lol: )

Anywayz, can you tell me a little bit about your conscious goal setting and how you can "bring the future into the now" without, um, not being in the now?

Thanks! :)
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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by weichen » Thu May 08, 2008 4:51 pm

Anywayz, can you tell me a little bit about your conscious goal setting and how you can "bring the future into the now" without, um, not being in the now?


The answer is simplicity.

After the mind mutation, which leads to quiting job, throwing away TV, quiting internet chess, quit internet browsing, not insisting on geting approval from others, etc, the mind becomes very simple. The mind is only interested in a few things, although these a few things represent huge contribution to humanity. When you have simplicity, it means you have such abundant space, and goal seting becomes a no-brainer. It only takes a second to be clear about what to do now, tomorrow, next year....

If future goal seting becomes a strain, it usually means that 'mind mutation' has not taken place in you yet.

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Re: Future = Illusion?

Post by Narayan » Thu May 08, 2008 10:55 pm

Hm, I wish it would be that easy for me right now ;)
Narz wrote:Anywayz, can you tell me a little bit about your conscious goal setting and how you can "bring the future into the now" without, um, not being in the now?
I'm just reflecting it ... currently my goal-settings are not really coming from my mind, as I would say I want to improve my company and then I go from there analytically in the mind. I did this earlier and while it sets a course, it somehow does not create results that easy. I think it is because it comes from a neediness and from not being that, what really is one with the goal. I found the latest webcast with Eckhart very insightful about this topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8hD2IJScl8 (at the end, very powerful!).

So today, to take an example, if I look at my current company or my private life, I'm trying to get insights and ideas for further development. It is not really analytical thinking or pushing, I somehow have to be open and do not resist. To put it into one idea: I have to be this, what is in harmony with the goal. Then it flows and it is easy, good things come to me. It feels like letting go of resisting the idea or the goal to get to me :) Of course I have to take action, but this action flows more naturally then, without to much effort.
I know this sounds strange and is a bit overstated, but if I am present and open it is almost like I could connect to the ideas I intent to get and then they come in my head. I then write it down, otherwise it is not really a goal (my point of view).

Then, again from my current viewpoint, I would like to say that thinking and thoughts are good, of course. If one can use thoughts consiousely (meaning being aware what happens, choosing to think about something), then this is really wonderful. The mind is the tool then and it is a hell of a tool :)
If you put a lot of awareness into thinking, from my experience, you lesser your degree of presence. For me this is totally ok, because I chose to do so and I return to the present afterwards.

This is my current view, I'm learning with vision and Now also! Hope it made sense.
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