Total Failure

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Total Failure

Postby Craig » Tue May 13, 2008 5:03 am

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Re: Total Failure

Postby HermitLoon » Tue May 13, 2008 1:16 pm

What does "fail" mean?
(I am here to learn)

Peace and Joy
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Re: Total Failure

Postby heidi » Tue May 13, 2008 2:44 pm

For me "fail" means opportunity. :)
Edison's quote:
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.


Obstacles and challenges are stepping stones. :)
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Sighclone » Tue May 13, 2008 4:31 pm

HermitLoon -

One hand washes the other. We are learning from you.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Total Failure

Postby HermitLoon » Tue May 13, 2008 5:39 pm

Thanks Andy.
Peace, it seems, comes with awareness - of the "IS" that is - of both the natural and the spiritual - of both "Dysfunction" and perfection.
Add to this the awareness that we have choice as to where we direct the majority of our attention and Joy is possible.

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Re: Total Failure

Postby Narayan » Tue May 13, 2008 9:17 pm

Thank you for this topic, because it touches what goes on in me right now. From a traditionally point failure is the road to success. Somewhere around 1920 Napoleon Hill stated "every failure carries with it the seed on an equal or greater benefit." You don't have to be spiritual or enlightened to come, act and be from this.

At the moment I try to merge spirituality and being awake with the flow of success, creating and especially the motivation behind it.

Let's look at something, where this merging seems to get difficult: Adyashanti states at the beginning "Spirituality is about becoming conscious enough to allow yourself to be at that place ... nowhere to go, nothing to do." and then at 8:10 "It is the illusion of us that is trying to succeed. What would reality be trying to succeed at? Like being itself that it already is - what would be the point?"

Then, let's take an example, a popular one: Michael Jordan.
He learned from failure early on (when he did not made it to the college-team). He used this failure to "make sure, that he never feels that kind of pain again". He used that energy to grow, to develop, to raise to the top. He gave his all. In the end, that was an accomplishment, an achievement, a success.

The question basically is, would he have done the same, or better: would he be able to do it, if he would be enlightened by the age of 18 when he did not made it to the college-team?

Let's take this question to the point: Would he have been able to put sooo much effort, so much passion, emotion, so much will and desire into his success, if he would have realised, that he is already whole inside?
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Craig » Tue May 13, 2008 11:01 pm

HermitLoon wrote:What does "fail" mean?
(I am here to learn)

Peace and Joy


Did you listen to the audio recording? :wink:
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Craig » Tue May 13, 2008 11:08 pm

Narayan wrote:
Let's take this question to the point: Would he have been able to put sooo much effort, so much passion, emotion, so much will and desire into his success, if he would have realised, that he is already whole inside?


Probably not. But that depends. As the teachers point out, you can still play around in the dream world when you're enlightened. And, on that level, there's still things you can do, things you can achieve. Whether or not you'd be as successful in something like a professional sport if you were enlightened is difficult to say. My guess is that people identified with egoic consciousness are more likely to push themselves farther in the dream world, since it's their entire reality, and their sense of self is invested in it. When we're identified with the dream world, success is usually very important to us, which means we expend a lot of time and energy trying to achieve it. So I would suspect that egoic consciousness, whatever else we can say about it, is very well suited to the dream-world existence, and from the perspective of dream-world existence, egoic consciousness is far better suited for people than enlightened consciousness. But, when it's seen as being like a dream, all of that becomes less important.
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Re: Total Failure

Postby HermitLoon » Tue May 13, 2008 11:22 pm

Hi Craig!
What audio recording?

...and to answer your other question (who am I):

I-I is. And we are it.
(I-I is Infinite Intelligence - the co-existing double "I" of "I" the natural(body, mind) and "I" the spiritual - "I" the life force and "I" the"soul", "essence", "God", etc.).

maybe...

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Re: Total Failure

Postby innerhike » Tue May 13, 2008 11:51 pm

Craig,

In response to Narayan, I liked your words:

My guess is that people identified with egoic consciousness are more likely to push themselves farther in the dream world, since it's their entire reality, and their sense of self is invested in it.


----

HermitLoon,

If you are still looking at this discussion, regarding your question:

What audio recording?


The answer is in Craig's original post on this topic:

Sometimes what you really need most is to fail spectacularly:

http://www.adyashanti.org/listen.php?fi ... o&type=low


----

While I have not or may not listen to the audio clip, I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that failure or suffering are excellent openings into the Now.

The ego does not give up easily, it will try all possible moves and won't give up until it completely or spectacularly fails.

Life usually checkmates the ego and says "Game Up".

----

Unrelated to this topic, but related to some other interactions I see on this forum in regards to the importance of enlightement or stabilizing in the Now:

We can allow ourselves to be hit by the oncoming train of Life, which is how most people will come to the Now. But if after we have been exposed to the Now, if we again fall asleep, then it may require yet another train-hit for us to re-awaken.

For "beginners" stabilizing in the Now must be taken seriously, not casually.

Not until we are stabilized can we say that enlightenment is nothing.

Let's not rub something into the dirt until we are worthy of doing so.
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Narayan » Wed May 14, 2008 12:35 am

Craig wrote:My guess is that people identified with egoic consciousness are more likely to push themselves farther in the dream world, since it's their entire reality, and their sense of self is invested in it. When we're identified with the dream world, success is usually very important to us, which means we expend a lot of time and energy trying to achieve it.

Thanks, good to the point of my question. So do you (all) think, it is a worthy endavour the be the best you can be, to give your all to creating and manifesting a vision, to your outer purpose (even if you are aware of your inner purpose, which is - also accordning to Eckhart - Awakening)?

I like to add another perspective: We are in the world of form. We are part of it. We are aware of our essence and our connectedness, the oneness with all that is. So we are (part of) both.
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Re: Total Failure

Postby HermitLoon » Wed May 14, 2008 12:55 am

Thanks Innerhike - I listened - the words "success" and "failure" still have no meaning for me -
"surrender"(to what is) - letting go of the judgements of the journey - does!
(and Craig - maybe that was part of the message?)

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Re: Total Failure

Postby Narayan » Wed May 14, 2008 1:41 am

HermitLoon wrote:What does "fail" mean?
(I am here to learn)

A traditional answer: If you pursue a goal, and you come to an obstacle blocking the way, and you then give up on it, although you know it would be the right thing to do, maybe accepting bad conditions after it, that would equal to the term "fail".

Also traditional on the other hand: if you use this obstacle to grow, develop and get to the right thing, that would equal to the term "success".

Another view: if my girfriend is asking me kindly if I could hand her over the cushion and I ignore it, that one could call to "fail". On the other hand, if I do it and deliver myself with it, that one could call "success" :)

In general success would be doing (or for that matter being) and reaching what you wanted to do.
Failing would be not getting there and also not learning from it, hence repeating it (being unconsious).

Do you think these words (fail, succeed) are redundant?
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Craig » Wed May 14, 2008 3:28 am

HermitLoon wrote:(and Craig - maybe that was part of the message?)


Considering that Adya says something to the effect that failure is success- which is to say that in the end, they are one- I'd say so.
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Re: Total Failure

Postby Craig » Wed May 14, 2008 3:40 am

Narayan wrote:Thanks, good to the point of my question. So do you (all) think, it is a worthy endavour the be the best you can be, to give your all to creating and manifesting a vision, to your outer purpose (even if you are aware of your inner purpose, which is - also accordning to Eckhart - Awakening)?


I don't know. At this particular point, what I do in terms of a job and in terms of leaving some sort of legacy behind are not that important to me. Prior to heading down this path, they were very important to me. The right job was very important- and I'm not talking about a job that paid well. Rather, I'm talking about a job that was something I was passionate about and really wanted to do. And I also had a desire to have some significance, leave something behind of importance, even if it was just in a specific field. In other words, I wanted immortality. Isn't that one of the most seductive of all the ego's ideas?

But now, that doesn't seem so important any more. I am still moving in the direction that I was going previously, job wise. Yet the sense of urgency and the need to have a job that I love has left me. This is somewhat curious, considering I still find myself identified with thoughts and beliefs at times. Maybe it comes back to the idea I raised in the other thread about a "continuum of consciousness". Even although the recognition of enlightenment has not been felt, I'm less consumed by maya than I once was.

I realize that a particular job or career path is only a narrow form of outer purpose, but it's the one that has been most relevant in my life. Or rather, my ego's life.
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