On Being Right

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DanWyns
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On Being Right

Post by DanWyns » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:50 pm

Have you ever engaged in a discussion (and/or an argument) with someone where both participants were certain 'I am right and you are wrong'.

Supposing said discussion centered on a belief, say, was Jesus Christ an ordinary man or the actual Son of God?
If both participants were adamant in their convictions, I think its fair to say that neither party could ever change the other persons mind.
Both would dicker back and forth, one spouting the chapter and verse which supports their claim, the other logic and reason to make his case.
It could be a civil discussion, or it could turn into a violent exchange depending on the personalities of the two.
Upon conclusion, both could be even more firmly entrenched in their positions, walking away with the feeling of, 'I am still right and he is still wrong'.

Religion is one of the easiest examples to cite, but nearly everything is subject to interpretation; say a conspiracy theory even or a book by Eckhart Tolle.

Is the black and white of right and wrong the best course of action for the individual?
Would we not be better served by holding are beliefs somewhere in-between, say in the shade of gray?

Of course it could be said that doing so makes you, 'wishy-washy' or 'riding the fence', changing your mind at the whim of the moment.
That one should be 'resolute in ones convictions', or 'firm in your faith'.

But does that rigidity of thought hinder ones development?
“Part of me suspects that I'm a loser, and the other part of me thinks I'm God Almighty” - John Lennon

James
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Re: On Being Right

Post by James » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:29 pm

Dan you are so right, right on I mean, (errrr relatively right), about the human mind's strong urge to be right and make others wrong. It is the need for certainty and the ego's need to create a new identity out of what it knows. An enhanced sense of self that now knows everything.

For instance I could say it is called "Presence" and someone else could say no it is not really Presence it is called "Frumpy." Then what might ensue is a ridiculous conversation revolving around Presence Vs. Frumpy. And "Frumpy" might be just as accurate as "Presence" from the other persons perspective, depending on what "Frumpy" is actually referring to in that persons mind.

That is why we say this:
At best words are just approximations of truth, relatively true from a limited perspective, not absolutely true. So it is best not to be concerned about the seemingly rightness or wrongness of any words from your own perspective; that throws us back into mind analysis. Go to the experience itself, the words are meant to be pointers, and discover what no words can adequately describe.

James
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

HermitLoon
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Re: On Being Right

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:38 pm

As Shakespeare said "There is no right or wrong but thinking makes it so".
Peace

James
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Re: On Being Right

Post by James » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:50 pm

Yes, good old Bill Shakespeare. He had some insights. Here is another one:
"O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;"

It is important to remember that the ego means well, its function is as a survival mechanism to navigate through the natural world, and it fulfilled that function well in many respects. The ego's mantra is the law of self preservation. Being right or having certainty helped the human species survive up to a point. Now this approach to life is becoming increasingly dysfunctional, and a higher dimension is emerging.

James
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

James
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Re: On Being Right

Post by James » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:32 pm

We can try this little exercise for fun: Something Adyashanti talked about recently on his radio show.

Ponder the question: What do I know for certain anyway?

Suppose we hold that idea of actually "I don't really know," or "I don't know," and see where that takes us. See what becomes of the mind structure. And to make it more fun, stay with that notion of "I don't know," contemplating it for a while; either in meditation with eyes closed (or open). Or you could just keep it in mind as you are working, or doing other things, and see how the mind responds to not knowing; a state of unknowing.

Then come back and describe your experience here.

James
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

HermitLoon
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Re: On Being Right

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:05 pm

Chopra gave an interesting answer:
I exist
I am aware
I create

Peace and Joy
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D'ray
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Re: On Being Right

Post by D'ray » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:31 pm

I let reality decide.
There's no "I" to become enlightened. The "I" can have spiritual experiences.

DON'T resist the RESISTANCE! The resistance is there. Walk into it. Feel it. Become one with it.

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DanWyns
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Re: On Being Right

Post by DanWyns » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:36 pm

James, that is an interesting exercise for the mind.

It makes me remember a line from the movie Rudy, where the priest intimates to Rudy; "In all my years of theological study I have only concluded two incontrovertible facts: There is a God, and I ain't Him"
I do not exactly agree with the priest's assessment though; it implies that God is an entity separate of Us, I think perhaps We and God are one, many parts of a greater whole. Of course there is no way for me to know that with any certainty, and I reserve the right to change my mind.

The exercise seems to be the quest for absolute truth, which I have contemplated for a while now.
I think to 'get there' requires the ultimate commitment, complete surrender of your 'self'. The abyss is open to all who care enter, but your 'baggage' must be left at the door.
That too, I reserve my rights on.

Other than that, I believe that the sermon on the mount is probably the wisest teaching ever spoken.
Conversely, I think what Man did with those teachings is the greatest tragedy ever committed.
“Part of me suspects that I'm a loser, and the other part of me thinks I'm God Almighty” - John Lennon

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heidi
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Re: On Being Right

Post by heidi » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:50 pm

What do I know for certain anyway?
Or do the Byron Katie thing: Is that true?

My husband and I used to have huge political "discussions" where he would end up exasperated and stoop to name calling when he was flummoxed by my superior arguing skills, ha ha ha. Having those I love the most - unconditionally no less - hold differing views on many core issues people would fight a war over, I have learned that an argument can only go so far, and there's no convincing those who've already made up their minds. Lucky for them I'm so open minded. :lol:

I will often just refer to my favorite non-dual Rumi quote - which has probably been posted more than several times in this forum over the years:

Outside the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.

And then we can talk about the ego feeling superior at rising above the need to be right! :mrgreen:
Heidi
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HermitLoon
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Re: On Being Right

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:15 pm

Beyond that field - beyond words and form - there is a still, silent "space" from which all consciousness arises.
"We" are always "there" - "knowing" nothing.

Peace and Joy
Peace

James
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Re: On Being Right

Post by James » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:36 pm

Hermitloon
You are echoing my sentiments precisely.

The state of "I don't know" is actually another gateway to now. The mind/ego structure cannot exist in this state of unknowing. What remains is pure awareness.

James
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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heidi
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Re: On Being Right

Post by heidi » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:51 pm

Beyond that field - beyond words and form - there is a still, silent "space" from which all consciousness arises.
"We" are always "there" - "knowing" nothing.
Beautifully put. :)
Heidi
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wonderment on the third wave

HermitLoon
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Re: On Being Right

Post by HermitLoon » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:35 am

Thanks :)
Peace

Cleis Pearce
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Re: On Being Right

Post by Cleis Pearce » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:51 am

Dear People... Its so wonderful to read your conversations and to be able to laugh out loud I enjoy reading it so much.Thank you Cleis

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Sighclone
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Re: On Being Right

Post by Sighclone » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:47 am

Being is right, ego is wrong,
With a flute and God's breath,
I'll blow you a song.

Have a nice weekend...

:)
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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