Spirituality and Drive

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Narayan
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Spirituality and Drive

Post by Narayan » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:41 am

I have to say that I am into a bumpy ride lately. Since my glimpse of awakening my motivations to improve and to achieve were over-layered first by presence and now by a lack of motivation. I did not really support getting in the now after some time, mainly because I saw that I did not function that good then, especially in my job (I'm CEO of my 50 people company). Although I know it is a precious gift and I want to embrace it, I decided to go easy with it. As the presence lessened, I somehow made some not so good interpretations of what happened. A Pain-Body got re-activated and I think there was more unconsciousness than consciousness in me. Adding this to not using my mind as heavely or better as focused as I used to, I did not have some so nice moments lately ;) As I'm writing this, I am recovering and resuming to follow my goals-settings. I am not so sure if I handled everything that good, especially the reactivation of limiting belief-systems, negative though-patterns and lower energy-levels.

It seems to me the core error was to forget, that even in a high state of spirituality, I still function best, when I use my mind and body in the best possible way. When I am at my peak regarding energy-levels, body-fitness, mental focus, communication-skills and motivation. Do you agree here?

Secondly, the question that remains is, how can I integrate the awakening experience constructively and supporting into my live, especially when it comes to the drive to enrich my live and to grow? Hopefully an interesting topic to discuss.
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by the key master » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:59 pm

What up Narayan?

I vibe with your situation. I'm a professional poker player. After awakening, materialistic incentives disappeared, and I contemplated giving up the game. Actually, I didn't contemplate much, I simply stopped thinking about it. As you have 50 people depending on you, incorporating Presence into your professional life will be more complex, but definitely possible.
It seems to me the core error was to forget, that even in a high state of spirituality, I still function best, when I use my mind and body in the best possible way. When I am at my peak regarding energy-levels, body-fitness, mental focus, communication-skills and motivation. Do you agree here?


I do agree. Before awakening, exercise, healthy diet, and sleep were the 3 variables most indicative of my energy level, and thus my mental performance at the tables. After awakening, the variable of consciousness factors in. Every morning I dedicate 20-30 minutes to stillness or some form of meditation. Doing so facilitates inner body awareness throughout the day, making it far easier to remain present. The same should be done at night.
Secondly, the question that remains is, how can I integrate the awakening experience constructively and supporting into my live, especially when it comes to the drive to enrich my live and to grow? Hopefully an interesting topic to discuss.
First-take a good look at this question-and examine where traces of ego might be found. The goal of the corporation(textbook definition not mine) is to maximize shareholder wealth. In this sense-corporate mentality and playing poker share a seemingly unconscious foundation. If I play poker only to get rich or pay bills, then poker represents nothing more than a means to an end. I am thus playing unconsciously. After Awakening, I needed to reconcile gambling for a living with consciousness. The first modality of awakened doing is acceptance. Can you accept your current situation? When setting goals-let the light of consciousness guide. If your goals are set by the ego-good luck trying to consciously fulfill them. Make sure your goals are not ego seeking salvation or happiness in the future.
Although I know it is a precious gift and I want to embrace it, I decided to go easy with it. As the presence lessened, I somehow made some not so good interpretations of what happened.
When fully present-life goes easy. When you say-"I decided to go easy with it"-I recognize ego here. Youre the CEO--youre the boss. Ego likes these notions-and wants the reigns back to the operation-if it ever lost them. Staying present should seem effortless. You say yourself as you lost presence your interpretations blurred. Running a corporation partially under conscious thought and partially under egoic thought will likely screw the corporation up worse than either two thought processes on their own. Your goals could change from day to day-even minute to minute. Your motivations will definitely change. If I were you-I would take a day to yourself. Regain Oneness. Then consciously assess what is causing the uncertainty at work. Whats triggering your pain body? Is it your employees? Do you have difficulty remaining conscious amongst unconscious people? Can your business goals, which are necessarily part of your outer purpose, be aligned with inner purpose? You know the nuts and bolts of the operation-only you can answer these questions.

If you elaborate on what specifically is causing the current tension in your life-I'm sure the you'll get some well thought out guidance from the beautiful minds on this board.


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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Narayan » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:30 pm

Jason, thanks. I think on the non-personal level my question is really about creating harmony between world and spirit, between duality and nonduality, between mind and awareness ... empowerment, instead of disempowerment, which I somehow experienced.

So on the personal level, "taking it easy" means, I wanted and needed it this way because I could not function. I sat in my office in bliss, but unable to do anything that really brought something forward of what I have and want to do. I like my goals and I sense they are inspired, they are creating value for others and manifesting them is joy for people involved as for myself.

But there was not that portion of necessary energy to really go for it - this drive that animates and takes me through barriers. Feels like I over-layered the one that makes it happen. An example: there is a task that need to be completed, to get further to the set goal, say a launch of one part of a website. It's not an easy one, consisting maybe on 6 steps. I.e. finding a small plan for it, then the best first step, then doing the action which might be getting in touch with a person who has to do something then and then involving another person and getting the two reports and find the conclusion for the next action. Well, that's everyday business and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. There was the energy that was in itself very pleasing (presence) and on the same level there was a lack of motivation to go through all this effort for such a task. Seems like I was distracted by awakening eperiences ;) (all the time)

From my current perspective, I would like to complete these tasks. Of course it is not always easy or effortless, i.e. I need plenty of energy to do it and a vision that drives me. But both, vision and drive went blurry. Maybe I have to re-adjust this vision I see, if it really is compatible with my current state of consciousness.

So how can this harmony between both worlds look like?
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by the key master » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:48 pm

I think on the non-personal level my question is really about creating harmony between world and spirit, between duality and nonduality, between mind and awareness ... empowerment, instead of disempowerment, which I somehow experienced.
Interesting. If by the non-personal level you mean humanity-I suppose True harmony will only exist when every thinking Being reaches enlightenment. If by non-personal you mean non-egoic-I suppose that's the essence of aligning inner and outer purpose, form and formless. After Awakening you suddenly wake up from the dream of ego. The life situation that ego had such a prominent role in manifesting still remains, however. Now what do you do? Accept, and what you cannot accept, change. Probably not very helpful I know haha...
Well, that's everyday business and I just couldn't bring myself to do it. There was the energy that was in itself very pleasing (presence) and on the same level there was a lack of motivation to go through all this effort for such a task. Seems like I was distracted by awakening eperiences (all the time)


I deal with this same issue. I sit outside and stare at trees for hours. Then I get a reality check, or I suppose an illusion check. Your long term goals, which while indeed are secondary, still exist. Staring at trees is not going to pay the bills, clean the house, walk the dog, etc-let alone aid in accomplishing long term objectives in the world of form. Seemingly, the more Present you are, the less able you are to accomplish mundane tasks, because you see they are less important (not that walking my bulldog owen isnt important sorry owen). Your consciousness might be leading you to a new career. I imagine for a CEO, or anyone in positions of power and financial splendor, Awakening must be difficult in this respect, if they cannot find the harmony between form and formless in the Now.

I think this discussion brings to light the interplay between societal norms and consciousness. Societal norms vary across the world of form. Just because you now realize you are the consciousness behind the thinking entity, and egoic structures that built your life situation have collapsed, the structure implicit in every society still exists. I am eternal Being, but I still need money to eat and shelter myself. Thus, I am seemingly forced into action by societal structures, built mostly by ego. The first step is accepting these societal structures exist. Getting to the level of joy or enthusiasm, while being partially controlled by society, or collective ego, will inherently be less possible after Awakening. Its kind of a bleak answer, and I'm hoping others will add to it, but for now that's all I got. I guess this is why Awakening isn't for everybody, as it carries a heavy burden, but only if you try to carry it.

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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Sighclone » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:52 am

narayan -

How much of your work could you delegate? Sometimes the ego likes to do things our subordinates could do just as well or better. You might be able to find more time to deepen your consciousness if you delegate more, and thereby "spread" your growing consciousness more to your people. Ramana Maharshi transformed people just by sitting in silence with them.

Since nonduality is not a religion, but a simple and profound fact of nature, provable by observation and experience (using meditation), maybe you could hold an in-house seminar on it. It seems to me that the issue of "narayan is into nonduality" may be a topic of discussion (outside of your earshot) at your business...can you trust anyone to tell you what they are saying?

Just a few thoughts...

Namaste, Andy
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by entelechy » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:25 am

Losing one's drive is a common phase people go through at some point during the awakening process. For many, it happens when they begin to disidentify their sense of self from things that are impremanent, from 'form' - so they may find that they no longer find fulfillment in having prestige or appearing 'better than' another; they find that the type of car they drive or the size of the house they live in has nothing to do with who they are; Some suddenly lose interest in striving to go up the career ladder. Various outward pursuits lose their attractiveness, for sudenly it is apparent that they offer no real fulfillment. The drive is now directed in a different direction: inward.

So the question then becomes: Is there not a way of striking a balance between the two worlds - where one remains centred in her divine essence and is able to bring this Presence forth to her outward endeavours? (If I remember correctly) Eckhart said this is what true success is.

From my current understanding, one way of finding this balance is aligning your outer purpose with your inner purpose. Your inner purpose is awaken, to allow Presence/Being /God to shine forth to this world through you. If your outer purpose is a leader, do you have a clear, enlightened vision of where to take your organization? Are you leading your team with Presence? Are your decisions guided by enlightened values? Do you facilitate and support the growth of your colleagues, so that they too, may find spiritual, emotional, physical, social, financial fulfillment?
If you are an entrepreneur, are you finding ways of how to keep providing ethical products/services that offer genuine value to the people you Serve? Do you support endeavours in the community that strive towards the same goals as you?
If you are a businessperson, is your business actively and consciously contributing towards positive social transformation? Are the business processes you use promote the common good and seek to harm no one? Do you engage with suppliers and stakeholders that also uphold the values you strive to live up to? Is your primary aim to make the most money possible, or you see profits as secondary: that if you do the right things with the right processes with the right people, profits are going to be made?
If your daily life involves interacting with other people, do you engage with them as means to an end? Do you see them for who they really are, or do you also mistake their identities for their job, or their appearance, their talents and skills, or do you see them in relation to what you could possibly get from them?

A person who had awakened to his real Self, who had found wholeness and Presence, no longer do things as means to strengthen his ego, to 'add' to his sense of little, separated self. She does things not so she could feel fulfilled or whole or complete. Rather, she does things because she is complete; Her accomplishments are done not so she could be adored or admired or recognized. Rather, she engages with projects and challenges because she has something pure to share and she is aware there's more where it came from; People whose lives an awakened person touches naturally find themselves 'empowered', because here is someone who sees them for who they truly are - here is someone who can look past their 'flaws', their pains, their limitations - and treat them as holy.

An awakened person's drive stems from the very core of his Being, where it remains boundless, limitless and True. The Unmanifested - this force of pure potentiality - is so powerful that it cannot be contained. It has to come through, and it can only come through through you .

An awakened person freely allows this to flow through. An unconscious person, on the other hand, merely keep asking, "well, what's in it for me? why should i do it?"
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Sighclone » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:35 am

I think some of the challenge is in saying "no." If we awaken and recognize that we are all Source, and a competitor appears to be stealing your work, shouldn't you just turn the other cheek? After all, he and you are just part of Source - no big deal.
But if we say "no" to that and sue, isn't that very selfish and egoic?

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Narayan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:32 pm

This competitor was not giving anything in order to recieve. It's just not a right act, and therefore can't be supported, by society and by nature. We even would not support it in ourselves. Besides you, it also would not support her/him too long I guess. As Eckhart says, the world has a way to always show to you when something is not working and right. And society also then :)
Eckhart had a passage about a "quality no"... And what is the point of turning the other cheek? For the other to learn something? Or even for ourselves? While it may be something one could choose to do, if others are involved in the consequences, I would not do it. (And I would not advise it to myself. ;))
It all brings us back to the fact that there is duality and society and ego, doesn't it? To infuse it with consiousness seems to me important, but not to deny it and it's laws.
entelechy wrote:A person who had awakened to his real Self, who had found wholeness and Presence, no longer do things as means to strengthen his ego, to 'add' to his sense of little, separated self. She does things not so she could feel fulfilled or whole or complete. Rather, she does things because she is complete; Her accomplishments are done not so she could be adored or admired or recognized. Rather, she engages with projects and challenges because she has something pure to share and she is aware there's more where it came from; People whose lives an awakened person touches naturally find themselves 'empowered', because here is someone who sees them for who they truly are - here is someone who can look past their 'flaws', their pains, their limitations - and treat them as holy.
Very good point: "she does things because she is complete". This resonates with my current "feelings" and it implies, that there maybe a drive even greater available, but from another source and with other intentions.

The interesting thing here is, that the drive I used in the last years mainly came from applying the law of attraction (without really knowing it) via vision, goals, focus and execution and via constant improvement of the skills and having fun with it. But in a way this also are tools and actions done from a deeper motivation. Where does the basic motivation come from? It seemed like a mix of wants of ego and intentions that came from source. If I am open and ask the question "What is the best way to go from here?" and when creative ideas or even a vision emerges, I can only assume that these came from source. If I then put the analytical mind to it, well thats natural then.
I said in another thread there was the striving for fulfillment, through expression via work and through realising potential. This was the greatest motivator. The next thing is obviously to create; to create affluence/abundance for me and others, especially with the idea for me to move freely without limits in the material world.

I don't know, I'm having a hard time to drop these motivations ... no, I have dropped them, but they are coming back to me now :) And I'm not so sure, if I go with them or let them be ... If Genpo is correct with his ZEN-way of a flexible, Integrated free functioning human being, it would be wise to use both, maybe with the underlying consciousness as the main guide.
Last edited by Narayan on Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Onceler » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:08 pm

Fascinating discussion! I read of a person who awakened through the zen tradition. He was a doctor and upon awakening he felt that being a doctor was no longer important. He asked himself "why should I be a doctor?" The answer came back clearly--because you are a doctor!

Why should you be a CEO? Because you are a CEO. Why should you set goals and maximize profit? Because that is what CEOs do. Do this until you no longer do it. Then do something else.

I highly recommend anything by Byron Katie, but in particular, A Thousand Names for Joy. I don't know for sure, since I have not awakened, but it sounds like awakened folks are not the same and the experience is not the same. They become aligned with reality or being, whatever form that takes through them.

by the way, I think being present makes it easier to do the small stuff.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by HermitLoon » Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:46 pm

Being "Awakened" doesn"t mean we stop doing and become passive - being alive means movement- it just becomes "awakened doing" - infusing the most complex - and even the most mundane - with profound meaning - the total awareness of both "being" and "doing" - and of the infinite potential inherent in both.
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by James » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:29 pm

"The master does all things by doing nothing"
Tao Te Ching

"The more of a master you become, the more of a servant you are"
Joel S. Goldsmith


"The way to do, is to be"
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by HermitLoon » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:15 pm

Yes James...
In the acceptance of the broader perception of "being" and of the more narrow perception of "thinking and doing" - in both the celebration of Joy and in the feeling of compassion for suffering - the Peace of Oneness arises.
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Narayan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:43 pm

HermitLoon wrote:Being "Awakened" doesn"t mean we stop doing and become passive - being alive means movement- it just becomes "awakened doing" - infusing the most complex - and even the most mundane - with profound meaning - the total awareness of both "being" and "doing" - and of the infinite potential inherent in both.
Yes, it is strange, that this misinterpretation can come so easely. I witnessed it not only in me more as a feeling than anything, but constantely in other people, also in the Eckhart/Oprah Webcast Call-Ins. Maybe that is because if you come back from the field of Now into the mind and are not yet very familiar with it, there is a possible confusion in the mind, what it means from the perspective of the mind.
Onceler wrote:Why should you be a CEO? Because you are a CEO. Why should you set goals and maximize profit? Because that is what CEOs do. Do this until you no longer do it. Then do something else.
As long as one does anything, one has to do it fully. Is that the essence here? Or is it about where are your talents, go there and do your best and be of service? Which also is true. Maybe both.
You can make a decision, to go for this or that. In my case, I made this decision, staying CEO and going for my vision for this company for now. The element is, that there seems to be resistance to go back into this mind-filled area of constant thinking and doing. Anyway, I will just do it now - infusing consciousness into the doing - and see what will happen :)
James wrote:"The master does all things by doing nothing" Tao Te Ching
Then the master is not the CEO :mrgreen: (at least not yet)
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Narayan » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:10 pm

Thanks for these concrete answers, I appreciate them! ... and like to give some answers to them:
Sighclone wrote:How much of your work could you delegate? Sometimes the ego likes to do things our subordinates could do just as well or better. You might be able to find more time to deepen your consciousness if you delegate more, and thereby "spread" your growing consciousness more to your people. Ramana Maharshi transformed people just by sitting in silence with them.
I really delegate already a lot. In this situation I believe it is not about delegating more away to make more space, but on the contrary to find a way to get totally in the flow with the whole company and it's doing again. It is like with all tasks, if I become one with it, there is the flow of right actions and natural, effortless drive. That is what I am looking for again. At the moment there is a certain distance between my task (as I define it for myself) and what happens. And I don't like it and it is not enough. If this would go on, I definitaly should look out for another CEO. But as I stated, that wont happen so soon.
By this I don't mean to lose myself in it and eliminate all the space in me. But the distance is so big now, that I'm too far away to care enough. It seems to me, that I just have to restart now and see how it goes ...
Sighclone wrote:Since nonduality is not a religion, but a simple and profound fact of nature, provable by observation and experience (using meditation), maybe you could hold an in-house seminar on it. It seems to me that the issue of "narayan is into nonduality" may be a topic of discussion (outside of your earshot) at your business...can you trust anyone to tell you what they are saying?
Nice idea. I was thinking about starting a more practical approach beginning with the essence of how to manage task and time, how beliefs and responsibility have a deep influence. "narayan is into nonduality" is really no topic on a wider scale, only with my two business-partners with whom I discussed it, but this is working quite good so far. It may become a topic, but for now it really would enable the "narayan is into nonduality" maybe to a "narayan is nuts" discussion ;)

entelechy wrote:So the question then becomes: Is there not a way of striking a balance between the two worlds - where one remains centred in her divine essence and is able to bring this Presence forth to her outward endeavours? (If I remember correctly) Eckhart said this is what true success is.

From my current understanding, one way of finding this balance is aligning your outer purpose with your inner purpose. Your inner purpose is awaken, to allow Presence/Being /God to shine forth to this world through you. If your outer purpose is a leader, do you have a clear, enlightened vision of where to take your organization? Are you leading your team with Presence? Are your decisions guided by enlightened values? Do you facilitate and support the growth of your colleagues, so that they too, may find spiritual, emotional, physical, social, financial fulfillment?
entelechy, thanks for this very beautiful post. :) Very much to the point, bringing together both worlds is bringing together inner and outer purpose and, I think, using the whole capacity as a human being (s. Genpo).
entelechy wrote:An awakened person's drive stems from the very core of his Being, where it remains boundless, limitless and True. The Unmanifested - this force of pure potentiality - is so powerful that it cannot be contained. It has to come through, and it can only come through through you .

An awakened person freely allows this to flow through. An unconscious person, on the other hand, merely keep asking, "well, what's in it for me? why should i do it?"
For me, to find a first conclusion, it is an intensivication of depth, clarity and knowing. There is no need to change something greatly in my outer purpose now, since I really already love and enjoy what I am doing. And there is a vision that can be fulfilled, that I go for right now.
I also realize, that space was always there in my doing. What happened then is the deep experience of being and this knowing. It has to have a powerful and positive influence now.

So about spirituality and drive I would say: It gives a deeper foundation. It helps to stay on the right track and to find right motivations that serve all. It can have a purification-effect, meaning it takes you away from lower energies and motivations, but also opens the door to a more powerful inspiration.
We will see what happens now - as everybody - I am on a constant journey here. :)
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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Post by Sighclone » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:31 am

narayan -

Of course my earlier comment about the competitor was just a teaser...yes, you would defend yourself for the reasons you stated. Thanks for this thread, by the way...we were chipping away at this in another one that has fizzled out. I just received my copy of Adya's 'The End of Your World' which has a section on 'What Happens after Awakening". I'll report on it.

Although it is a natural, profoundly meaningful condition, enlightenment lacks appeal in the egoic world. This, of course, is because egos lose control. Now egos can appreciate the Law of Attraction - you get to accumulate stuff! And who wants to encourage employees to enter some early-phase bliss-space where they no longer care about deadlines, and kind of identify with Eckhart's anti-striving message. When I was in management, I used to send subordinates away unless they showed some concrete effort at solving any problem they brought to me. So here I am throwing problems at you without much effort to solve them myself...

But as CEOs move to awaken, would not they want the same for their employees?

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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