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Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:30 am
by Craig
Since we're derailing this thread, why don't I reply by PM?

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:34 am
by Webwanderer
Craig wrote:One theme that comes up again and again in teachings on spirituality or enlightenment is that you are it and all you need to do is stop looking. Now, the thing is, most spiritual seekers read this sentence and part of them thinks it's a trick. They don't really stop 100%. They keep searching, because enlightenment has to be something you achieve (after all, not everyone has it, right?) and it has to be some sort of "higher state" than the one you're in.
It's not entirely looking that is leading seekers down the path of endless searching. It's more where it is they look. Most seekers of truth and enlightenment (myself included for a couple of decades) look outside, because even though there has been a constant mantra to look inside, it's difficult to get a sense of what that means. The mind naturally wants to look for conceptual ideas of enlightenment simply because that is its nature. And as one is identified with mind as ego it is searches for concepts of being rather than experience. Even when an experience of a higher nature is had the mind seeks meaning to attach to it. The mind's idea of looking inside is to look inside its own thinking. In reality that is still looking outside for answers.

If one is going to look inside, it must be clear that looking inside refers to inside this moment. It's not the workshop we're going to attend next week, or the book we ordered or even tomorrow mornings meditation. It's in this moment that one must look to find truth.

All the spiritual books in the world cannot do what one direct look into this moment can do to awaken one to their true nature. Books and retreats have value only to the degree that they point and inspire the seeker lost in the story of life, to look in this very moment - without thought, without judgment, without restriction. Once this recognition of one's essential nature is clearly seen it becomes a sanctuary in all of life's storms. It is the essential perspective from which the events and challenges that come our way may be seen unencumbered by painbody influance.

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:11 am
by Sighclone
And Andy, you are a true asset on this board. The light from your consciousness has illuminated my dark room of mind on several occassions.
Very kind, now if I can just fight my way out of this paper bag... :)


Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:14 am
by Sighclone
Craig -

Threads morph. Poor narayan...we have yanked this topic into some other space. But let's keep it in the forums. I'll start another one called "We are all enlightened" and set some links to and from it.

It is here: http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... =10&t=4318


Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:18 am
by Narayan
Haha, this was a great development of the topic, thanks Andy. And as I just re-read the thread from the beginning, there was one single question coming to me, which - for me (yes, I admit, I really finding my personal way with this topic) - could bring more clarity:

What drives you? Where do you get your drive from?

... anyone who wishes to share, thanks, it's appreciated.

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:08 pm
by aceking
Hey, I totally have to get my 2c in on this thread.

I was going to post my own but it fits in here so I will ask away here...

I understand people are saying that some people, once they start getting into presence and enlightenment etc that they try and get away from the outside world. I'm not exactly locked away from the world, but the way I live is super, super easy, relaxed, zero stress. I own my own business which runs itself, I dont have to do any work. Even getting it to where it is required very little work. I work on my own at home, and have a reasonable social life with friends/family etc.

So, I have always had ZERO drive. Well not zero, since I would have gotten nothing done if that was the case. But I feel more like Ive always had to force myself to work. I never get any desire to do it. I have this strange thing where I would like to write a novel, I would like to be more social, I would like to go out more and have an exciting life. But I have zero motivation to do any of these things. My day (after sleeping in for ages) comprises of reading assorted books and forums I'm interested in, watch some tv, meet friends for coffee or lunch, maybe exercise if I feel like it...

I would LOVE to have more motivation, I'd LOVE to jump out of bed in the morning, be one of those really talkative social people, write a great novel or accomplish some other things I'm into, but like I said, I cant be bothered.

What do you think is up with me? Is that just how I'm built? I'm not despressed, and apart from the fact that I have this sorta nagging "I should be doing something constructive" feeling, I'm quite happy. I've also lived a super sheltered life, my upbringing was perfect, mum and dad love each other and me... No ones died on me, have had no struggles or anything you know? Sometimes I think I should go pull some sort of "into the wild" type of thing, or a "rite of passage" of some kind, but I dunno if I can be bothered lol

And yeah I have a ton of books I've read on trying to get motivated haha...

Any thoughts?

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 am
by Sighclone
AK -

I don't have a problem with any of that. Yes, you are luckier than some, but necessity is the mother of invention, and you have a pretty smooth path - easier than crying need to be inventive. You can be a frequency holder...see ANE, last few pages...or not.

I've found that volunteering is very rewarding...


Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:51 pm
by Onceler

You may want to try traveling to expose yourself to other ways of living and maybe have a little adventure.

Go ahead and start that novel. Who knows?

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:35 pm
by dutchred

If that nagging sense that you should be doing something ambitious dissolves in presence, then when you feel it creeping in, you can dismiss it as the mind trying to create a problem where there is none.

Every now and then when I am in a place of quiet clarity, I ask myself questions like "how is my time best be spent?" The answer that always comes to me is that being in a body is about love. The attention we put on things when we are fully present, be it our loved ones, our pets, our motorcycles, our careers, or our own bodies in the shower, that's love. A day spent this way is enough, in my mind. How could anything be lacking? If the word "love" feels weird to you, pick another one. Love is just another word pointer for the experience of oneness with Source, I suspect.

Many people believe we come into the world with some kind of divine mission to fulfill; I don't see it that way. How you choose to live your time in a body is up to you, and fairly superfluous, really. It is the attention, the presence, that matters.

If I could live out that truth daily, and model it to my son...well, I'd be giving him a true gift. If I never gave him anything else, that would be enough. For both of us.


Incidentally, a fun way to be present and write a novel is to participate in National Novel Writing Month. I think it orginated in the Bay area, but has caught on globally. Best wishes!

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:22 am
by Narayan
As I come back to the thread I noticed something for me today, especially as I watched this video again:

Eckharts says at around 6:00 you are already complete, but on the world of form you can dance. Nothing new but a stimulus to me. Regarding the topic it seems now that drive and awakening are two completely diffentent topics, as long as you don't seek youself through the drive. But if I'm aware of my true essence, I am just that. The drive to create and to enjoy this, to put my full heart into it and give my all to what I envision has nothing to do with it, as long as I am aware that I don't find myself in it. But I can strech myself, enrich my experience, have excitement and great social moments. That makes sense, doesn't it?

AceKing, if you are asking how to get motivated and find drive, have you tried setting goals, creating a vision of something that you would love to create and see this with clarity? Another hint: check out Anthony Robbins, I never found anyone with more transformational positive energy on this topic.

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:49 am
by Sighclone
Indeed, narayan. I spend my days grinding away on my little reports with my little brain, getting some joy. But that is just it - I am the joy receiver, not the joy maker. I use my mind, I enjoy the results, others pay me. But I am not defined by it all. I am not even defined by any of my work. It defines itself. It provides joy...I witness joy.

Namaste, Andy

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23 pm
by Narayan
Yes Andy. Basically what I am saying is, spirituality and drive are on two different levels and going higher into one, doesn't mean going lower (or higher) on the other one. It can have influence on each other, in terms of the roots of motivation or the view of reality, but there is no hard link. You can be spiritual and have no drive or have a huge drive to fulfill a vision. You can be driven to make something invisible visible, but it doesn't imply anything about spirituality. That was my aha-moment (at least for now :)).

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:30 pm
by aceking
Thanks guys,
Great replies. Regarding the novel writing thing, I sometimes wonder if another reason I dont want to do it is because I may subconciously fear failure or that the result wont be that good. I seem to often enjoy coming up with concepts for stories and thinking how good it would be and how I'd like to see/read that story, which confuses me, because I don't ever get around to writing it! I always think it would be great to be a published author, to entertain and inform my readers and so on. But this goal seems to be driven by my ego more than a love of writing. If I loved writing wouldn't I already be doing it? Shouldn't that be true with anything we are driven to do? Ie we should be driven to do something because we love doing it?

I'm fairly driven to play poker because I love the game. On the other hand I realise that its not very constructive, and I'm taking money away from my opponents and making them unhappy. Does this matter in the scheme of things? (ok that was a surprisingly big question! :) I wonder if I will feel unfulfilled after years of playing, even if I've enjoyed it and made a lot of money. I'm not contributing anything to society or helping anyone. On the surface I dont really care and rarely ever think about it, but those thoughts sort of nag at me when I take stock of my life as it is.

Lastly there's David Diedas philosophy that a real man should have a life purpose and goal which should be more important than anything else. He also feels that women aren't attracted to men with no purpose or drive, so of course this is a big reason why I'm thinking a lot about this too.

Actually, lastly lastly! I think one of my bigger "goals" is to find an awesome girl and wife, and have a family like the one I was in growing up. That clearly is in conflict with David Diedas "you should have a goal thats more important than anything" which he states clearly as including your spouse.

Thanks for your time!
Best Regards.

P.S. I will have to try some writing with various Tolle'isms running through my mind, incase my ego is holding me back somehow. Thanks for the links and encouragement!
P.P.S I am travelling in a months time as well for 4 months around the world so that should be interesting :) Good suggestion on the travelling idea!

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:59 pm
by Narayan
aceking, regarding your goal to write a novel. I experienced that the thing that is most important to me, is the thing that I am in danger of laying off constantely. I feel that because it means so much to me, because I love to see it manifested, I somehow put it off for the following reasons:

1. fear of failure - it has to be perfect
2. fear of success - if I succeed, what's next?
3. unclarity - it is not completely clear and I have no clear action-plan, therefor it seems very big

I pushed myself towards it and made one small step after another. I also wrote an article about "Getting started is the hardest part" which is available here: ... dest-part/

I would not worry too much about ego if you feel that what you do is what you love to do, if it feels right to you. I found thinking about "Is this my ego?" is sometimes a bit confusing. If I really love to do it and it benefits all then I think it is right.

Re: Spirituality and Drive

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:20 am
by Sighclone
I have been writing a novel for ten years. It has evolved somewhat after Tolle/nondualism triggered a change in my sense of self/Self. I like writing paragraphs, building the plot, creating characters, and putting words around a 'scene' in my mind. I try to call on Source, but much of what "sells" appeals to egos. I would like to appeal to an audience larger than that which is drawn to Tolle. The plot structure currently does not allow a complete re-write to non-dual themes.

Perhaps it would be the zenith of humility to say that once it is done, I'm perfectly content to have it sit in a drawer in my desk and be tossed in my coffin. But that is not true. A few people have read a few chapters, some of them nondualists. All have really enjoyed it. That was rewarding - to add some joy to another life. If that is your goal in writing, I do not think there are ego worries. Did Eckhart write PON and ANE for himself (in form). No...he wrote it for his larger Self which includes all of us.

Namaste, Andy