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I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:38 am
by Clove
A threshold has been reached as far as my inner state is concerned, and the intense, frequent pain, isolation and depression that I experience on a day-to-day basis despite any of my regular efforts has finally pushed me to the point where I simply cannot live like this anymore. Coming into full consciousness and fully dis-identifying with my mind is now my first priority. I am not only willing but very eager to walk away from my depressing, painful, lonely and hopeless daily lifestyle that my mind identifies with over and over again and completely devote myself to spiritual awakening full-time, revolving my life around it. I simply have to do this, as stated earlier I cannot live like this anymore, and I now fully realize that all of the social and career goals I have been struggling to pursue on a daily basis will only lead to dead-ends, even if I achieve them 10-times over, thus giving way to further depression, isolation, loneliness, and downright confusion.

It is for these reasons that I have decided to do everything I can to travel to someplace where I can live with awakened teachers and study under them full-time, perhaps even permanently. I am willing to walk away from everything for this. The reason why I have decided to create this post is because I do not know where to begin when it comes to looking into something like that. If anyone who reads this knows of any information that could help me (locations,people, etc) I would greatly appreciate it. I am 100% fully serious about this and I can use all the help I can get to move forward with this decision, especially since at this point in my life this is the only sane, reasonable, and hopeful decision I could possibly make.

Thanks in advance for reading this and especially any for any information you may have that can help me.


Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:19 am
by kiki
First of all, welcome to the board. I will postpone going to bed to address your concern (it's well past my bedtime right now).

If what you say is true, that you can no longer live the way you have been then you are certainly "ripe" for awakening. It was just such a situation that triggered ET's awakening. But don't be fooled into thinking you have to go somewhere else to do this, that you have to live with a teacher. Doing so is just another egoic entanglement waiting to happen.

Instead, look to see how your life continues as it does. What is being done to create this situation? The "culprit" of course, arises out of a certain way of thinking, does it not? Aren't there mental viewpoints thrusting themselves before your mental gaze? The core entity that entertains such thoughts is itself a mental creation. But what is found when this entity is sought - have you looked for "you" yet, the you that is thought to be you? And more importantly, what does the "seeing" of anything? Even your life of pain, isolation, and depression is being seen by something, isn't it? What is the nature of that which sees? Start there; investigate that which sees and see if it ever leaves you. What can be discerned from the discovery of that which sees? Then see which is more real and where peace and wholeness exists, in that which sees or in that which is seen?

In the meantime, take some time to go through the board. There are lots of threads that I am sure you can gain insight from and a growing cadre of members who are seeing more clearly everyday.


Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:22 pm
by Onceler

Kiki's advice is sound and I agree fully. I would just add that if you haven't already, you may want to seek help from a mental health professional. It sounds like you have a signifigant depression and you may get some relief from counseling and/or meds which can free you up to pursue spiritual matters. Perhaps there is a counselor in your area whose style would support your spiritual search. This can be done in conjunction with the things Kiki talked about.

At a minumum, try to get more exercise and cut back on caffeine and alcohol, if these areas are an issue. This will help you get into the deeper stages of sleep at night, if your sleeping has been disrupted. These deep stages are restorative and critical for our mental and emotional well being.

I have no idea about your circumstances, so this advice may not apply to apologies if I am off the mark.

Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:43 pm
by Webwanderer
Hi Greg, welcome to our forum.

You did not mention whether you have read Power of Now or A New Earth. If you have not, then by all means do so. Start with Power of Now.

All issues of mind-based desperation and suffering can be seen from the light of truth. In doing so they lose their power to wreak havoc with our experience. So make perception from truth primary to search for truth.

Desperation is purely a mental fear that some imaginary standard is being missed and that achieving it is of such importance that failing to do so says something terrible about our charactor. Consider that desperation for awakening (in this case) is the ego/mind's emotionally charged desire to be free of itself. All the while the awareness of such desperation, and its accompanying pain, is clearly seen from the very perspective you are so desperate for. The truth you seek is the awareness that your desperation exists within.

Sit for a moment and recognize "things" that you are aware of. Start with desperation if you wish, but also become cognizant of other, more simple forms. Are you aware of the computer screen you are looking at? How about the chair you sit in? What are the sounds in your invironment? Experience each of these (and more) without aid of definition or labels. Know them experientially. Conduct regular sessions of being aware - experientially - of "things" and "activities" in your environment.

Awakening is a simple shift in perspective from me(ing) to being. Me(ing) exists through attachment to ideas and assumptions that appear to validate a personal separate identity. Being is the awareness and experience of form moving through the present moment. Make this distinction clear. One changes with whatever new belief is added, the other is eternal and changeless. Awareness is the blank canvas upon which the artist creates. No matter what the artwork, the underlying canvas is forever the same.

The practice of being aware of the simple things in your environment is simply to remind you of what an awareness perspective actually is. It is what is always present, even though we may get lost in temporary identities of desperation and depression. It is what you actually are. All else, moments of depression and anxiety, moments of joy and gratitude, are but experiences within this essential reality of being. Dis-cover (or un-cover) this essential reality that you are. It is merely hidden behind attachments to ideas about identity and charactor. It is not actually "behind" such ideas, it's just that the mind holds a lazer like focus on a narrow perspective that dominates one's attention.

Essential Awareness is always present. It is simply in need of a little clearing to regain it's freeing perspective. Consider looking for opportunities in gratitude. Little stuff, big stuff, any stuff. A breath of fresh air, a tasty meal or a kind word. There are infinite opportunities to be grateful for the experience at hand. The beauty in living such a life of gratitude is that gratitude and depression cannot exist simultaneously. Gratitude is so connected to love that depression cannot coexist. It may take some time, but be patient and gentile with yourself. There's no hurry. It will all be done and experienced in this singular moment. But remember, it must begin now. Waiting for another day is the ego/mind's way of maintaining control of perception and control of identity.


Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:49 pm
by the key master
Hey Greg,

At this moment, you're exactly where you're supposed to be. How do you know? Because that's where you are, and no thought about past experience can change that. Drop the unnecessary emotional baggage and move forward with the wisdom your life struggles have afforded you. Trust your gut. Use your mind, don't let it use you.


Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:46 am
by Sighclone
Greg -

I agree with everything others have said. But you mentioned looking for a different location. Check out Byron Katie's new 28-day series called Turnaround House: Looks good to me!

Also, Loch Kelly is a non-dual therapist in NYC -

You are not your thoughts. Or your feelings. Or any combination of any of them.

Namaste, Andy

Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:59 pm
by AndyD
Hi Greg,

I'll start by saying I know exactly what you are going through and I dont feel its unique to you or I - in fact I feel that its a step most or all of us go through on 'the spiritual path'.

For myself I've been through this more than once (obviously I hadn't faced it fully). But upon really feeling and watching the emotion I could realise that this desire - 'If i live with a guru I'll be happy' was really no different to 'If i get that partner I'll be happy' 'If i get that job I'll be happy' etc. It would be simply another dissapointment of life. Don't get me wrong, learning from a spiritual teacher is wonderfull but my own experience is that real learning is hard work and cant be accomplished by merely been with a teacher.

My own recommendation to you would be to watch what is going on inside; really watch. Emotions are tricky things and ofen have us make some bad decisions. It may be that you need to change your lifestyle and watching inside will help you do this correctly. Last time I felt like you did (this time last year) I contemplated living with a teacher then, realising that wouldnt help, suicide. Even the suicide I saw through and eventually resigned from my job and went backpacking at the other side of the world. For me this gave me the breathing space I needed but of course the hard learning didnt stop....but one thing I did learn is that when I was open spiritual teachers were everywhere.

I've went round the houses a bit but I hope you get something usefull here.

Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:53 pm
by letitgo
Hello Greg,

I've been where you are. One morning I woke up and couldn't even move. I just laid there and said out loud, "I just cant do this to myself anymore". With tears in my ears, so-to-speak, there I was, 40 something, a successful contractor, with a lovely wife and family and life, so miserable I couldn't move. A big tough guy. "I can't do this to myself anymore". That kind of said it all for me. I was the one that was doing this... to myself!?

I believe all the responses to your post are excellent. My only advice would be to read. Just go to Borders and carry ten books at a time back to the area with tables, open to a page at random, and read. If the words hit you with familiarity, if the writing flows and resonates with what you're going through at the moment, buy it! The Power of Now had a great effect on me. But it took me about six months before I was ready to soak up The New Earth. Another author which allowed me to put things in perspective was Brian Weiss.

Looking forward to you finding peace, Norm

Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:48 pm
by the key master
but one thing I did learn is that when I was open spiritual teachers were everywhere.
Aint that the truth AndyD.

Re: I'm desperate for imformation, perhaps you can help.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:54 pm
by Clove
Hi everyone,

Thanks very much for the responses. I really appreciate them. That very night I typed that post, I surrendered to the pain, it was probably the most intense spiritual experience I had. For the next few days after that I felt a deeper presence and clarity than I ever had. I realize now that living with a teacher is really my ego's attempt for another emotional band-aid, such as relying on a relationship with a girl in an attempt to find happiness, or relying on friends who will never live up to my expectations, etc. I know for certain there are many people out there with a lot of value to give because of their own experiences, and this of course include all of you who responded to this, but ultimately this is something I have to surrender to myself, and so moving in with a teacher probably isn't as much of an answer as I was making it out to be.

Thanks again.