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Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:18 pm
by PerryB
I'd like some feedback...

I have been comparing various ideologies and most recently have been looking at Tolle's teachings and Buddism, and I see a common thread surrounded by 100's of tiny differences. I come from a very strong christian-based background then went through a personal crisis, (also a common theme), and have been searching ever since. But my thoughts so far is that I am amazed at: 1. The commonality of the various teachings and 2. The insistance of people to include their own 'spin' on this common thread. For example, and I am not being critical of this thinking or belief system, but I was looking for a group of people to discuss Tolle's book and I found one near by but in their invitation they say you can bring a snack as long as it is natural or organic. So I can't discuss be part of this group and bring Oreos? I found this interesting as I discovered that many groups similarly have different criteria. Has this been your experience?

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:15 pm
by tod
I found this interesting as I discovered that many groups similarly have different criteria. Has this been your experience?
What defines a group is criteria. What defines experience is criteria. What is of interest is criteria.

Once the "common thread" you talk of is defined - via criteria - there is the "100's of tiny differences" you talk of.

The search is not the search for the defined.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:45 pm
by Webwanderer
Nice touch there tod. "The search is not the search for the defined." Cool.


PerryB, As "Truth" is universal, it stands to reason that there would be a common thread amongst all genuine efforts to understand and express it. I suspect all those "tiny differences" are the result of the cultural and perceptive lenses through which each one looks. That's not such a bad thing. It maintains the opportunity for individual discovery so that each ones experience of knowing truth remains unique.

WW

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:02 pm
by PerryB
Thank you Tod and WW. I see what you are saying. However is it not true that "truth" is limited if you tie it to another belief and remain dogmatic. For instance, if you say that here is where you can can enlighenment but of course you must first belive in God or evolution or ______________? It is a little bit like offering a free gift but you need to listen to this lecture first. What do you think?

PB

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:28 am
by Webwanderer
Sure Perry, as with all things "buyer beware". It is incumbant on all of us to look for ourselves. We take another's word for truth at our own peril. If one does not know truth directly, through experience, then one does not know truth. That being said there are layers to truth that makes sense depending on our degree of perception. It is in the rediscovery of silent clarity that the sense of truth unfolds.

WW

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:47 am
by Onceler
Maybe the organizers of the group just like natural, organic snacks.

I would take oreos and test their ability to surrender to the now...I mean, hey, if you can't surrender to the essence of oreos...

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:01 am
by tod
So if they invited you to a meeting at 7pm is this too limiting? If in addition they ask you to bring a plate is this too limiting? From here it looks as if you focusing on the hundreds of tiny differences, rather than the unlimited, the undefined.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:23 am
by PerryB
Lol... Great insight. Thank you.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:33 pm
by Wings
[quote]I would take oreos and test their ability to surrender to the now...I mean, hey, if you can't surrender to the essence of oreos[/quote]


Onceler, that was hilarious and fringed with brilliance! Still grappling with chuckles in writing this reply. Not in anyway to demean the essence of subject matter, it can act as a reminder of what universally can and does go on in upstairs storage. :-)

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:17 am
by Sighclone
Tolle comes from a long line of nondualists going back to thousands of years before Jesus. Aldous Huxley in his seminal "The Perennial Philosophy" summarized many of the early writers in this 1944 work. And there are little differences everywhere. There are differences within Zen. There are subtle differences between PON and ANE (he's softer on the ego in ANE). Fundamentally, as soon as we have language, we have duality. It does not dilute the message to shine different lights on it. Take the oreos. No one is required to eat them. Ask who says you have to be a vegetarian to be enlightened. Ask them if they knew what Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj did from 8-5. (He sold cigarettes.)

Namaste, Andy

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:20 pm
by nodoubt
Pery B
I agree that many religions in their basic forms point to the eternal.
Is there some resistance - could we just stop by health store, grab something?
Why waste a rewarding opportunity?
By the way love Oreos-I freeze them and have them with milk.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:54 pm
by PerryB
I’ve been reading about Buddhism lately. Same thing. People have taken the pure teachings and added them their own belief systems which in affect waters down the teachings of Buddha. My not surprised… just disappointed.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:27 pm
by letitgo
Perry,

I think your oreos have created the Tolle forum's equivalent to "Joe the plumber".

I'm not quite a high enough or light enough being to look past the dogma and admittedly, this does keep me from just enjoying some group event exactly as you describe. If I had to bring tofu, I wouldn't go. However, for the past week, a commercial has replayed over and over in my mind that relates to this subject. A guy was waiting for a cab in the rain and was miserable. Then along came these shoe insoles and jumped in his shoes at the same time a jerk-weed stole his cab. He was so comfortable and happy with his amazing shoe insoles that he just said, "That's OK, I want to walk anyway!" His jubulance outweighed his judgement. This is a concept which gleefully haunts me. Am I more interested in who should do what, or get what, or deserves what... or am I interested in what I want. I recognize that if I could let go of my preconceived notions, I could enjoy. I'm working on it!!!!!!!!

Sincerely, Norm

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:48 pm
by Onceler
I really like oreos when I'm gell'in.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Re: Comparing Ideologies

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:59 am
by Sighclone
It's always a pleasure to hear from you, onceler, gell'in or chillin', or whatever...

Andy