Call to Action

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domokato
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Call to Action

Post by domokato » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:04 pm

Now that we're all here with the same state of presence, what do we do now? We can talk and philosophize, but that is ultimately only an exercise on the level of mind. Untainted action, on the other hand, arises from presence!

Why not rally together for causes we can agree on? Perhaps the most clear targets are the ones that encourage mind- and ego-identification. Certain areas of advertising, business, and politics come to mind. For example, certain television ads create stereotypes that people unwittingly follow, or convince people that they are not good enough and require the advertised product to be complete. Politicians tell various half-truths and lies in order to instill fear or drive up egoic hope and secure votes. Corporations have been involved in various scandals and unethical behavior to make more money or maybe just to stay competitive, to the detriment of the life situations of many people.

I'm sure many of us here see these things and wonder why they happen. What is the root cause of it? And how do we make a difference?

Eckhart says being present is the best way to spread the light of consciousness. I think taking action is part of being present. If we work together, maybe there is a way to make our collective light more visible to the world.

Let's use this thread to talk about it.
~housecat

Badger57
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Re: Call to Action

Post by Badger57 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:30 pm

I personally don't want to preach. I've spoken to my closest friend about my enlightenment, and although she totally believes I'm telling the truth and knows I'm incredibly excited by it, she also totally doesn't understand it and thinks I sound like one of those people who comes to your door preaching the gospel! This I totally understand myself. If people aren't ready then no amount of preaching, cajoling or persuasion will have any effect at all and nor should it. In fact it would turn people off as 100% it did me. I've told my friend I won't preach but if she wants to ask questions then I gladly will answer them to the best of my very limited ability.

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Hand
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Re: Call to Action

Post by Hand » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:14 pm

Interesting idea!

I suppose when we are present, we indirectly influence others because they will be calmed, or inspired or maybe just recognise unconsciously the peace we radiate when we are present and not resisting what is. The less negative energy we radiate out into the world, the better.

We are inspiring each other to be present, how to be in the moment which will have a great impact on the world.

I can't think of anything else we can do at the moment, I'm sure there must be something!
Life is. Accept Life. Peace reigns.

innerhike
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Re: Call to Action

Post by innerhike » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:25 am

Here's my two cents on this:

We may think we have all reached the same state, the state of Presence.

But I doubt it.

I believe that most of us cycle in and out of this awareness, depending on the level of conditioning that is still yet to be uncovered, and the level of integration or balancing out that is yet to occur in our lives as we continue to stabilize in the Now.

Majority of us have built-up egos, and so we think we are stabilized in Presence. In reality we understand the concept and have tasted it but are not fully willing to surrender everything (our concepts).

Are we trying to save a world of our imagination? Or a real world?

Can this inner state be conveyed through rallies, through books, through evangelizing?

Can we really save this world? Can we really change others when we are barely able to change our conditioned, patterned behavior?

Are we doing this, or will it be done through us? Who is moving this call to action? The ego or the true self?

Why not let the universe work itself out? The ones who need to be informed or saved may actually be only pretending to be needing help.

Perhaps to the degree are we surrendered, to that degree we shall succeed in achieving our vision.

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Re: Call to Action

Post by domokato » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:28 am

Yes, our inner state is primary in all this. Only through presence can action untainted by ego arise. And it doesn't have to be serious, directed action. It can be fun action! An example of such action would be Improv Everywhere (http://improveverywhere.com/), where actors go out in public and "cause scenes of chaos and joy" which coincidentally also serve to jar people out of their everyday routines (into presence, if only for a moment :), but sometimes a moment is enough).

Badger57, many of us have had the same experiences with our friends. Preaching and evangelizing tend not to work, although I have had a small amount of success with it. This is not what I'm suggesting. If there are enough people in one area, an "awakening center" may arise on its own, not unlike a church or temple, but without dogma and stuff. But right now I think the membership count would be pretty low, hehe. I'd go to an awakening center, though! To hang out with other awakened people. That sounds like it'd be fun and relaxing. And I'd pay to support such a thing. If I felt I was present enough of the time I might venture to even start one myself.

Anyway, most of us are in different parts of the world, so maybe the only collective action we can take is online. Since reading The Power of Now, I've had insights about how the civilized world works and have tried to find concurring views online but have found none. Has anyone else had this experience?

How about YouTube videos? Lots of people watch them. Now there's "video responses" where people can post videos about other peoples' videos. We could start chains of those like others have (Show Us Your Homemade Instruments, Show Us Your Stupid Talents, Evolution vs Creationism - Defend the Other Side), but more relevant to awakening or exposing the negative effects of egos or something.

Just some ideas from the chaos :)
~housecat

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Re: Call to Action

Post by Soul Seeker » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:04 am

When the student is ready the teacher will appear

the key master
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Re: Call to Action

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:11 am

What up domo,

Inner hike said,
Majority of us have built-up egos, and so we think we are stabilized in Presence. In reality we understand the concept and have tasted it but are not fully willing to surrender everything (our concepts).

Are we trying to save a world of our imagination? Or a real world?
Well put.

Change conforming to an ideology, which non-dualism or present moment awareness can in some instances be, is change tainted by mind. Lasting transformation must come from within.

domokato said,
Eckhart says being present is the best way to spread the light of consciousness. I think taking action is part of being present. If we work together, maybe there is a way to make our collective light more visible to the world.
As inner hike mentions, I would inquire deeply within oneself the root of compulsion to act. The world you speak of is in your mind, not the other way around. Examine this truth. Any perceived flaws regarding such a world stem from thought and thus fragment Reality. I'm not saying everything is perfect. Perfection is a concept of mind. Everything simply is.

-Jason

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domokato
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Re: Call to Action

Post by domokato » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:44 am

Perhaps my first post put a sort of "save the world" kind of tilt to the whole thing, but that's not what I was trying to get at. My words were meant to inspire action as opposed to a philosophical discussion, but I suppose a philosophical discussion is in order now. So my question is, is there such a thing as collective enlightened action, or is it impossible?

You guys are right. I do feel my ego was involved in this somehow, but I think it has gone now :)
~housecat

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Re: Call to Action

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:27 am

Yes domokato I actually felt this reply was coming. Your intentions seem pure. Yet realize the desire for change for what it is. You are whole now. The homeless bum on the street is whole now. Not only that, you are the corrupt politician. All is you, nothing need change. Your true essence cannot change. The changeless is all that's real. "Desirelessness is bliss." From a relative perspective, ending suffering is the most noble of actions, but to the One partaking in such action, nobility is just a concept of mind, of no meaning whatsoever. Can you see within yourself how the change you advocate actually stems from your own mind? that everything is not exactly how it should be now? that you feel you have a personal stake correlating to corruption in advertising, business, and politics?

Stepping back, is the desire for others to change a motivating factor? What about for the world to change? If it is, recognize egoic undercurrent. The motivation corrupts the means, and the means corrupt the end.

Everything I've written has nothing to do with answering your questions, only to point your attention inward. I wholeheartedly support any action which ends suffering. But to help the world, first go beyond it. Realize you already are beyond it.


Best,
Jason

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Sighclone
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Re: Call to Action

Post by Sighclone » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:51 am

After my first experiences of waking up, I was way excited about "doing something." I captured the domain names "InstituteofBeing.com, .org and .biz" I wanted all the nondualists to form up and start classes and organize meetings. I wanted Bill Gates to fund it all. I had huge dreams. I was pumped, and it wasn't egoic. I did not care where I "fit in."

Although that image remains charming to me, it now seems grandiose and excessive. The teaching has been there for centuries. Seekers will find it. Non-seekers will find 500 ways to pooh-pooh it. There were long discussions on this forum about ambition and purposing.

My current opinion is that what should happen is what will happen. If different organizations are to form, they will form organically. Other priorities, which appear to be smaller, have come along to fill my days. I no longer judge the merits of them. Life nudges, I follow.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Call to Action

Post by domokato » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:08 pm

Thank you for the reminder, key master. Now that I've had a good night's sleep, my mind has cleared up a bit.

I did not have any egoic view of myself as being some sort of noble savior (although that idea did crop up a few times, and I recognized it as ego and it went away), and yes, the world is as it should be. I have no inner resistance to this. From a state of presence, I feel action arising, and that action is to organize people to take collective action. I see strong egos in the world, I see the suffering it causes, and I see that there is a space for change. So action arises within me to fill that space. I do not see ego in this. Eckhart did the same with his books. He saw that the mind causes suffering, he saw there was a space for such a teaching, so he wrote The Power of Now. Then he realized there was more to be said on the subject in regards to ego and the idea of space, so he wrote A New Earth. These are examples of actions that affect change and arise from presence.

I know my motivation for action arises from presence because if I were to fail in my endeavors I would not feel dissatisfied.

Sighclone, I feel you're right about organizations forming organically. I attempted to prod the forum with this thread to see who would take up the call, but I have been met mostly with resistance, and organic growth cannot happen in the face of resistance. So I think it is proper to turn this into a philosophical discussion first. (That is good that this has already been talked about, but since I wasn't there for those discussions I hope you don't mind if we go through it again.) Then, if we decide action can be taken, we can take it.

I understand that action can be tainted by ego, but I feel there is still a lot of pure action we can take and maybe have even been blind to. So the question still stands: what kind of collective action can we take from a state of presence?

P.S. I was thinking about this in the car this morning. Are there any screenwriters here who would be interested in writing a feature very loosely based on Eckhart's story? That would be a great way to expose ego and explain presence all the while entertaining with a story of inner transformation.
~housecat

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Re: Call to Action

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:40 pm

Hello again domo,
I know my motivation for action arises from presence because if I were to fail in my endeavors I would not feel dissatisfied.
Know nothing, except what is. Knowing the false as false is the only true knowledge. With that said, the flow of Life may certainly be calling you to action. While egoic structure remains intact, I simply warn of potential egoic hijack of future endeavors. You state if you failed you would not feel dissatisfied? Can you honestly know that? What about the opposite? What if you succeed, but in the process become famous or wealthy? Can you be certain increased attachment to form will not result? When beyond the grips of ego, these questions will not even arise. If you're at that point, then go with the flow. If not, then discover Self. Other than our recent interactions over the last couple days, I haven't discussed many issues with you on this board. If you haven't already done so and are interested in some additional reading, check out Adyashanti Emptiness Dancing and Maharaj I AM THAT.
So the question still stands: what kind of collective action can we take from a state of presence?
When collective action is taken, egoic motivation/intent may still exist. Your motivations might be pure, but what about everyone else? I like your idea of film on Eckhart. I do know a few people in the movie business. If you want me to set you up with them, drop me a private message and I'll shoot you their contact info. Check out my previous post entitled We Are Beautiful, its a 4 minute clip on universal consciousness. I had a kundalini experience the first time I saw it. I like your energy/enthusiasm domo,

Best,
Jason

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Re: Call to Action

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:09 pm

"To understand suffering, you must go beyond pain and pleasure. Your own desires and fears prevent you from understanding and thereby helping others. In reality there are no others, and by helping yourself you help everybody else. If you are serious about the sufferings of mankind, you must perfect the only means of help you have--yourself...

Ignorance is the cause of inevitability. Ignorance of yourself primarily. Also, ignorance of the true nature of things, of their causes and effects. You look round without understanding and take appearances for reality. You believe you know the world and yourself-but it is only your ignornace that makes you say: I know. Begin with the admission that you do not know and start from there.

There is nothing that can help the world more than your putting an end to ignorance. Then, you need not do anything imparticular to help the world. Your very being is a help, action or no action...

There are no blind powers. Consciousness is power. Be aware of what need to be done and it will be done. Only keep alert-and quiet. Once you reach your destination and know your real nature, your existence becomes a blessing to all. You may not know, nor will the world know, yet the help radiates."

-Maharaj I AM THAT pp. 383-385

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Re: Call to Action

Post by Hand » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:52 pm

Wow interesting topic! I really like the idea of a film as well - imagine something really inspiring to have perhaps a group of friends who are practising presence and what goes on in their lives and how they deal with things etc that would be really special
Life is. Accept Life. Peace reigns.

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Re: Call to Action

Post by domokato » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:40 am

Thank you for your responses, key master. They have provided many helpful pointers to consider.
the key master wrote:You state if you failed you would not feel dissatisfied? Can you honestly know that? What about the opposite? What if you succeed, but in the process become famous or wealthy? Can you be certain increased attachment to form will not result? When beyond the grips of ego, these questions will not even arise.
Yes, these questions have not arisen within me until you mentioned them. I have no fear in regards to my ego, so it does not control me. I wrote that I would not feel dissatisfied upon failure because I felt the responses to this thread were assuming I was not beyond that point of egolessness, but I am because I continuously recognize and extinguish those forms of ego when they pop up. And after that I return to a state of presence, which I consider my natural, "base" state.

That's not to say that I haven't fallen for some subtle egoic trap as even the masters have been known to do. But should this be cause enough to inhibit my action? I think not. I think action can help one awaken. Action is how we explore the world of form and learn from our mistakes and grow.
the key master wrote:Check out my previous post entitled We Are Beautiful, its a 4 minute clip on universal consciousness. I had a kundalini experience the first time I saw it.
I will check it out tonight :)

Thanks for the passage by Maharaj, too. Very calming.
~housecat

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