Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

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Sighclone
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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:26 pm

eputkonen -

What a delight it is to have your voice here, Eric. Could your expand on your comment "any desire is egoic." I care about helping people...I desire to help people. I presume that every Zen master who has opened every Zen temple has desired to expand self-realization. If that is egoic, is it bad? Or is it a desire at all?

thanks,

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Glycine » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:00 pm

I am talking about thinking mind - which functions better sometimes if we are not concerned with past and future.

Awareness is outside/beyond time - so thinking about past or future doesn't "influence" it!

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by eputkonen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:40 pm

Glycine wrote:I am talking about thinking mind - which functions better sometimes if we are not concerned with past and future.
The thinking mind is only concerned with past and future...the thinking mind does not know what the present is.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by eputkonen » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:53 pm

Sighclone wrote:eputkonen -

What a delight it is to have your voice here, Eric. Could your expand on your comment "any desire is egoic." I care about helping people...I desire to help people. I presume that every Zen master who has opened every Zen temple has desired to expand self-realization. If that is egoic, is it bad? Or is it a desire at all?

thanks,

Namaste, Andy
Hi Andy,

"I care about helping people...I desire to help people."

Who is that "I"? Ego of course.

"I presume that every Zen master who has opened every Zen temple has desired to expand self-realization."

That presumes too much. A temple or satsang or whatever could be started just to see what happens...not out of a desire to expand self-realization, awakening, or whatever.

If it was really a desire, then if no one shows up to the temple or satsang - there would be disappointment - particularly in not reaching the desired goal...i.e. expanding self-realization. Remember, for the Buddhist desire causes suffering and discontent. Let's go from personal experience, I offer satsangs not because I am trying to awaken others or have some desire/goal to help others...I offer satsangs because there is joy in satsangs. Like listening to music or looking at flowers in a rose garden...I do it because it is fun...it is play.

That I that is playing is ego...of course...but it causes no bondage or suffering because the ego does not cause confusion. It is played with...like an imaginary friend when we are children. It is only potentially a problem when we believe our imaginary friend is real. Or a more common illustration I use...like a mirage seen in the desert. It is only may cause confusion and suffering if it is accepted as real (water over there) and not a mirage.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:14 am

eputkonen wrote:I offer satsangs not because I am trying to awaken others or have some desire/goal to help others...I offer satsangs because there is joy in satsangs. Like listening to music or looking at flowers in a rose garden...I do it because it is fun...it is play.

.
Hi E..

That is nice however this is just you, you do it because it feels good for you and is joyful.
However someone else could hold Satsangs for other reasons such as a desire just to share and hope that others would have the possibility of waking up. For you it is your desire to play and have fun another may have different desires at the end of the day as you say it does have to do with the ego. When I use to give talks way back when in Ojai it to was just because I felt a unusual high degree of Joy from doing so. I know one person who is well known in the non dual circles and I will keep the name private, because we are so close there has been very intimate sharing and this person told me the only reason they do Satsangs is because it feels it is their mission to do so, only out of a sense of duty not because it feels good. As a matter of fact this person rather not do Satsangs at all but feels compelled to do them because of this sense of duty so there you go so many different types we have. What part of the country are you from?
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:39 am

That is nice however this is just you, you do it because it feels good for you and is joyful.
It feels like it's coming from Being.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:57 am

Juno wrote:
That is nice however this is just you, you do it because it feels good for you and is joyful.
It feels like it's coming from Being.
Where else would it come from? You see we all are or were homesick after being born into this world. So what a Joy it is Being Home..
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:01 am

It sounded like the You you were speaking of was as if you were speaking of an ego?
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:06 am

Juno wrote:It sounded like the You you were speaking of was as if you were speaking of an ego?
Juno you lost me I was not speaking of myself. All I did was repeat what he said that he does Satsang because he feels Joy from them. I have no clue what you were saying?
Maybe you read too fast.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:25 am

No, I knew you were speaking of eputkonen. I didn't read to fast. My punctuation wasen't correct.
That is nice however this is just you, you do it because it feels good for you and is joyful.
It sounded like you were saying eputkonen's ego, the you, you were speaking to in the above quote wasen't coming from Being that it was you/him/ego.

When you said "that is nice however that is just you" sounds like you like you are speaking to an ego. To me it sounded like he was speaking from awareness/being. That's all.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:34 am

Juno wrote:No, I knew you were speaking of eputkonen. I didn't read to fast. My punctuation wasen't correct.

When you said "that is nice however that is just you" sounds like you like you are speaking to an ego. To me it sounded like he was speaking from awareness/being. That's all.
Your much better than I my punctuation is never correct!
Ok thanks got it when you use just a few words and your online and not face to face there is always the thing of not being understood.

I never make judgments on where people are comming from nor can I even if I tried. For me they are always comming from Awareness-being as that is what I see.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:45 am

You're right, online things can get misconstrued very easily. Sorry, it's just the way it sounded.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:57 am

Juno wrote:You're right, online things can get misconstrued very easily. Sorry, it's just the way it sounded.
No problem nice to have you as a friend.
Kindly
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by eputkonen » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:07 am

DWBH1953 wrote:What part of the country are you from?
Minneapolis, MN
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Living vs. Being Present; Thinking about Present/Past/Future

Post by Sighclone » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:03 am

Thanks Eric for your comments on desire, esp. re play / lila. Sometimes I desire a glass of orange juice more than a glass of water. Sometimes I desire to hit golf balls. Sometimes I desire to do something loving for someone...anything. What percentage of "joy expression" vs. egoic desire is reflected there is unknown to me, and, frankly, right now, not important.

I understand that desire has to do with fulfilling future needs and is egoic..."wanting more," "feeling this is insufficient," "identified with form" (which is impermanent) is all ego-based. "Not getting, feeling disappointed, trying harder, striving more" all have big egoic origins.

But expressing love, and desiring to do that, if egoic, has got to be one of the less destructive forms of ego. I'm content in that place right now.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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