Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

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yep
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Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by yep » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:06 am

I am wondering what you accually think of the possibility of awakening. What I mean here is not what you WANT to be true, but what you accually believe. If one looks at it scientifically- how many percent of people following these similar teachings accually live in prefect harmony with their lives?
From what I see these kinds of forums accually contain as much conflict and personal opinions/judgements as any other forum.

I know this post will get some people disappointed and stirr up some emotions- that is however a good sign one is not awakened.

I can personally feel that part of me really wants to "awake", but another part is so tired of the topic and doesnt feel that there is such a thing but it is just another concept. (or is afraid that there might not be such a thing as awakening)

Hoping to get some interesting comments
thanks henning

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kiki
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by kiki » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:27 am

I am wondering what you accually think of the possibility of awakening. What I mean here is not what you WANT to be true, but what you accually believe.
Wondering about the possibility of awakening, wanting it to be "true", and what you actually believe - all of it is just mind spinning away.
I can personally feel that part of me really wants to "awake", but another part is so tired of the topic and doesnt feel that there is such a thing but it is just another concept. (or is afraid that there might not be such a thing as awakening)
This is just more mind, isn't it. The part that "wants" something and the other part that is tired of the topic, both of those "parts" are ego. Those parts are at odds with one another in the effort to "get" something - it's a nice way of avoiding the seeing of "what is". Can you stop all of it, all speculation, all straining, all efforting and just "be"? Can you see how there is the creation of separation in the mind? Why continue to fall for what mind is doing? Let it all go and just rest in the moment, with what is. There is nothing to get and nowhere to go - it's all right here. What is stopping you from seeing it? The answer to that question is not for me but for you.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Webwanderer
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:01 am

Awakening is not all that complicated. The mind tends to make it seem so, but it's not. Awakening is simply the recognition - experientially - of the distinction between thought identification and awareness as present being. It's common to drift back and forth for awhile, but bit by bit that recognition becomes clearer and more a sense of home. As Kiki says, it's only the ego/mind that makes a big deal out of it. Be patient and steadfast. Apply some pointers that move you. Sometimes there is more going on below the surface than the mind can recognize.

WW

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DWBH1953
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:09 am

yep wrote:I am wondering what you accually think of the possibility of awakening. What I mean here is not what you WANT to be true, but what you accually believe. If one looks at it scientifically- how many percent of people following these similar teachings accually live in prefect harmony with their lives?
From what I see these kinds of forums accually contain as much conflict and personal opinions/judgements as any other forum.

I know this post will get some people disappointed and stirr up some emotions- that is however a good sign one is not awakened.

I can personally feel that part of me really wants to "awake", but another part is so tired of the topic and doesnt feel that there is such a thing but it is just another concept. (or is afraid that there might not be such a thing as awakening)

Hoping to get some interesting comments
thanks henning


I believe that everyone on the face of the earth has had experiences in awakening without exceptions. I believe that many just do not see it for what it is when it happens. It is really no big deal, think about it this way if our real reality is Oneness and that is who we truly are look at how hard our ego works to make us think otherwise. So when we just relax, stop and do nothing it is only natural that our real side shines through. It may not be all the fireworks that your mind wants you to believe. Awakening is very ordinary. What is not ordinary and takes amazing effort is to believe that we are separate, that we are a person! This is the grand illusion that you think a person is here, that a person wakes up not to pop anyones bubble but this idea of awakening only seems like a big deal because it has been over sold a million times by the mind.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

Glycine
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Glycine » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:13 am

Webwanderer wrote:Awakening is simply the recognition - experientially - of the distinction between thought identification and awareness as present being.
Thank you for a clear post, WW.
I'm wondering: who is involved in recognition: the mind/ego, the awareness, or both? Could they be One? If yes, what are the implications? (Questions seem to never end....)

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DWBH1953
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:23 am

Glycine wrote:(Questions seem to never end....)
LOL true! Questions will end when the answers stop..
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

yep
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by yep » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:30 am

Hi again,
Thanks from your replies-i need these types of guidances!
I can really see how conditioned I am trying to use my mind and i feel really shaken up since i can not find any stability in the old way i looked upon life-Trying to live up to my optimal self image.

I know this is not going to be an easy process- I am still judging myself when i see my ego appearing-even though i know one should not judge anything. I can see that I am partly also trying to do this "being" then "right way". The mountains are not really "mountains" for me :wink: .

This also makes me a bit depressed and I get periods when I just feel I will feel lost my whole life-hence my question if this is an endless search- however i am very consious this is also just a thought and i try to accept it and let it be. I do not know if any of you can relate but i belive many people go through this process.

I am trying to be as sincere as I can with myself and hope i will get more comfortable with being uncomfortable

cheers henning

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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:10 am

Glycine wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:Awakening is simply the recognition - experientially - of the distinction between thought identification and awareness as present being.
Thank you for a clear post, WW.
I'm wondering: who is involved in recognition: the mind/ego, the awareness, or both? Could they be One? If yes, what are the implications? (Questions seem to never end....)
Glycine, it is my sense that the mind/ego is incapable of recognizing anything. What appears to be an identity recognizing something, is merely awareness perceiving through a conceptual thought structure that is perceived as a "me". All our memories and beliefs create quite a strong attraction. It gives one a sense of separate being, but it is only an illusion of personal existance. Awakening is the recognition of this false identity for what it is, and the return to perception as simple presence awareness. But old, well entreched, habits die hard.

It's not that ego need be entirely abandoned, it's the identification with it as a self that needs to be seen through and dropped if awakening is to occur. Personalilty after all, does remains useful as a medium of communication. We all still live in the material world and occasionally may need to order some soup.

WW

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DWBH1953
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:53 am

Webwanderer wrote:[quote=" What appears to be an identity recognizing something, is merely awareness perceiving through a conceptual thought structure that is perceived as a "me". All our memories and beliefs create quite a strong attraction. It gives one a sense of separate being, but it is only an illusion of personal existance. Awakening is the recognition of this false identity for what it is, and the return to perception as simple presence awareness. But old, well entreched, habits die hard.

WW
Well said , here is my little story about awakening. It may be a bit heading for some if so I am sorry but I had fun trying to put in words my own journey.

Who Am I,
The simple presence awareness is exactly what we are. I see it shining through the Oneness, God whatever word you wish to use as it shines through into what you say memories, beliefs I will call programs it create the human machine or person if you wish. The awareness just keeps shining through all of this and as you say when the awareness (who we really are) becomes aware of itself and lets go of the identity of its reflections off the memories and beliefs then it is awaken onto its own pure being. This all sounds so intellectual but also quite logical so when ask who am I , I contend that I am nothing but Awareness itself . Also when you think about it Andy mentioned gradual awakening which I also feel is correct. As Awareness shines through it begins to loose some of the objects it has identified with. So little by little as the objects fall off Awareness becomes more and more awake of itself revealing more and more about its true nature. It as if light being first channels through a array of prisms producing millions of images and as the prisms fall off one by one the light becomes at the end a clear channel showing itself exactly as it is from the beginning of its journey from Oneness to creation of our world.
Of course this is just my story, nothing in it is true, though I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I writing it.

I would like to add now the words of our own Nisargadatta Maharaj and see how it fits in my story.
NM: Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.
With Awareness
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

James
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by James » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:38 am

I am enjoying reading the light and wisdom that Randji, WW and Kiki are bringing here. And in the various threads today.

I have a suggestion that Glycine and perhaps Yep would like to try. It is a practice of sorts although a simple one, and actually a quite natural one. I know there is the camp that says there is no doer and nothing to do, so give up practices. etc. etc. That is true in one sense, put that notion aside for a moment to try something.

I find whenever I am caught up in my thinking, I lose touch with what is real, my true nature. I have found a simple and quick way to disengage and detach from thinking, is to feel and experience the inner energy field of the body. Eckhart discusses this in Power of Now. Also in the Gateways to Now recording which I highly recommend. In this recording he does a sort of guided meditation in which he walks one through this body feeling/energy, connected awareness. I won't try to explain what this has to do with awakening, it is beyond explanation. The proof is in the experience, try it and see what happens?

Adyashanti's true meditation is also excellent, but I would say try Gateways To Now first, get in the habit of feeling what is happening on a daily basis, rather than thinking through everything that happens, commenting and interpreting. The body can actually provide wisdom and direct comprehension. True we are not the body, but it is an avenue of expression and experience; and feeling it can bypass the mind. Eventually you may find yourself getting direct experience and insight from the depth of your being, and the constant barrage of questioning and doubts will begin to dry up, as you relax and rest in contentedness. Then I think the wisdom that you are hearing from the fine contributions on this forum, will begin to make more sense to you, the pieces will gradually begin to fall into place, and you will see more clearly. The next step I have found is inquiry, which is a specific way of questioning beliefs and mental constructs (it is not the same thing as analyzing), Adya explains it in True Meditation. But keep it simple for now, and practice feeling. When you are more grounded, inquiry will be more effective.

That is my take on it, it works well for me, and I have heard others on this forum say it has helped them also; hopefully it will work for you too.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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DWBH1953
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:02 pm

DWBH1953 wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:[quote=" What appears to be an identity recognizing something, is merely awareness perceiving through a conceptual thought structure that is perceived as a "me". All our memories and beliefs create quite a strong attraction. It gives one a sense of separate being, but it is only an illusion of personal existance. Awakening is the recognition of this false identity for what it is, and the return to perception as simple presence awareness. But old, well entreched, habits die hard.

WW
Well said , here is my little story about awakening. It may be a bit heading for some if so I am sorry but I had fun trying to put in words my own journey.

Who Am I,
The simple presence awareness is exactly what we are. I see it shining through the Oneness, God whatever word you wish to use as it shines through into what you say memories, beliefs I will call programs it create the human machine or person if you wish. The awareness just keeps shining through all of this and as you say when the awareness (who we really are) becomes aware of itself and lets go of the identity of its reflections off the memories and beliefs then it is awaken onto its own pure being. This all sounds so intellectual but also quite logical so when ask who am I , I contend that I am nothing but Awareness itself . Also when you think about it Andy mentioned gradual awakening which I also feel is correct. As Awareness shines through it begins to loose some of the objects it has identified with. So little by little as the objects fall off Awareness becomes more and more awake of itself revealing more and more about its true nature. It as if light being first channels through a array of prisms producing millions of images and as the prisms fall off one by one the light becomes at the end a clear channel showing itself exactly as it is from the beginning of its journey from Oneness to creation of our world.
Of course this is just my story, nothing in it is true, though I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I writing it.

I would like to add now the words of our own Nisargadatta Maharaj and see how it fits in my story.
NM: Awareness is primordial; it is the original state, beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported, without parts, without change. Consciousness is on contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of duality. There can be no consciousness without awareness, but there can be awareness without consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is absolute, consciousness is relative to its content; consciousness is always of something. Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the common matrix of every experience.
With Awareness
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:44 pm

yep -

It probably is of little solace to you right now, but noticing that mountains are not mountains is a step forward, not a step backwards. Congratulations!! (PS - they will be mountains again, maginficent glorious mountains :) )

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Glycine » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:36 am

Thank you James, WW, Sighclone, Kiki, and Randji for your posts! It is great to have you here.

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DWBH1953
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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:11 am

Glycine wrote:Thank you James, WW, Sighclone, Kiki, and Randji for your posts! It is great to have you here.
Your most welcome nice to be here with you.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Awakening-might it be a big illusion?

Post by Sighclone » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:24 am

Thank you, too Glycine...always a pleasure to read anything you have to say.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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