Significance of thought

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doug
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Significance of thought

Post by doug » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:52 pm

As the Dalai Lama and others point out, being born human in a free environment with the means to live a life of learning and discovery is a miraculous gift. From th Buddhist viewpoint, it is wise to use this gift to further our understanding of who we all are, where we have been, and where we are going.

When I think of this I naturally include all forms “living” or otherwise as we are all in this together spiritually as well as from a quantum physics viewpoint.

As human beings, we have the special ability to see, possibly understand (although limited), and experience Ourselves, discover meaning to our lives (inner and outer purpose), and connect with our core…the source of all things wonderful… love, beauty, joy, creativity, and bliss.

Although aware of the imbalance in our lives that is caused by incessant and habitual thought, it is thought that has brought us to inquire of Ourselves and it is thought that will help to follow the signposts to our ultimate destination….back Home.

What is thought from a quantum physics standpoint and isn’t thought our most powerful and important tool to be honored and respected, while establishing the balance between thought and being that we need?

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:13 pm

I would say:
Thought is matter expanded in the 4th dimension (time).
Maybe this is why thinking may be a hindrance to awakening (being present).

doug
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by doug » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:09 pm

yur words touch on what comes to me when I hear or read statements that refer to thought as illusion...

the words reality and illusion are used to describe things that I don't feel that I can fully understand

does it matter...well, yes as much as any of this conversation matters as we seek some if not rather limited understanding WHILE experiencing our miraculous existance called life...

James
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by James » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:39 pm

“Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations.
You are originally unlimited and perfect.
Later you take on limitations and become the mind.”

“You need not aspire for or get any new state.
Get rid of your present thoughts,
that is all.”
~Ramana Maharshi
I think what Ramana meant in the last sentence, is not to banish thoughts, but rather inquire as to their validity. The beliefs then will dissolve. Inquiry was a big part of his approach. Thoughts may still come and go, but they are no longer believed, no longer a problem. Ramana also said: "Let what comes, come; let what goes, go; and see what remains..." that which is unchanging (ever present awareness).
"Consciousness fused with thought = ignorance"
~Adyashanti
In other words, awakening is to be no longer engaged with thinking, identified or attached to it.

Thinking happens, I AM the space in which it happens, the Awareness, not the thoughts.


j.

doug
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by doug » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:53 pm

now James...this is very helpful

the thoughts are put in the place where they are intended...a helper, an assistant, a tool, and not us, not our life, not who we are

it's very, very cool isn't it??? I feel so grateful to have these signposts handed to me every time I log onto this forum

thanks to all...since you are me and vice versa...thank You/Me!!! :mrgreen:

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:27 pm

I don't know if solid matter is real or just an illusion, but, in my opinion, thoughts are as real as matter is.
If solid matter is considered imaginary, thoughts are imaginary; if solid matter is considered real, thoughts are real.

So the question would be: is the material world around us real or an illusion? This is a tough question, since even enlightened beings are still affected by the material world.

doug
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Location: arizona

Re: Significance of thought

Post by doug » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:47 pm

it appears through quantum physics we now know that there is no such thing as solid matter...so again we get closer to what is by learning what is not. :lol:

so now is it "real"?

I think it is... but we can never get our minds around it...it being what thoughts and matter actually are physically. Sure, science names stuff but as ET points out, we name it and then it's even more limited to understanding then it was before.

we can however experience it right?

I am that I am...

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DWBH1953
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by DWBH1953 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:56 pm

James wrote:
“Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations.
You are originally unlimited and perfect.
Later you take on limitations and become the mind.”

“You need not aspire for or get any new state.
Get rid of your present thoughts,
that is all.”
~Ramana Maharshi
I think what Ramana meant in the last sentence, is not to banish thoughts, but rather inquire as to their validity. The beliefs then will dissolve. Inquiry was a big part of his approach. Thoughts may still come and go, but they are no longer believed, no longer a problem. Ramana also said: "Let what comes, come; let what goes, go; and see what remains..." that which is unchanging (ever present awareness).
"Consciousness fused with thought = ignorance"
~Adyashanti
In other words, awakening is to be no longer engaged with thinking, identified or attached to it.

Thinking happens, I AM the space in which it happens, the Awareness, not the thoughts.

j.

Hmm here is my understanding of what is said. First the content of what RM is saying here. He says
You are originally unlimited and perfect.

Then he says ..Get rid of your present thoughts
Now replace the words thoughts with the word ideas and it then becomes clears

new with word replaced..

Get rid of your present idea,
that is all.


Ramana is simply saying your idea of who you are is not correct and he is using the word thoughts as ideas. I do not feel he was using the word thoughts as thinking.
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Really insightful, Randji and James - Thank you!
Nondualism is about direct experiential investigation for oneself. Instead of reading about quantum mechanics, I can get off my chair and bang my head against a wall - it sure seems to be solid!

randomguy
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by randomguy » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:32 pm

There seems to be a running theme among non-dualist teaching that all thoughts are untrue. A thoroughly questioned mind is an open mind. An open mind is a creative tool.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

tod
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Significance of thought

Post by tod » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:42 pm

"I experience what I believe, unless I believe I won't, in which case I don't, which means I do."

- Harry Palmer

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:56 pm

You are right, Tod - but that is true only when there is only one person experimenting.
However, if there are several people experiencing the same thing (a solid wall) - it is much more likely that the wall is solid. These people may not have the same beliefs, but the wall is solid to all of them!

doug
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by doug » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:01 am

the solidity of it depends on how big you are!!! :lol:

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:11 am

I must admit it - I'm pretty small...

James
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Significance of thought

Post by James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:16 am

Glycine wrote:
it is much more likely that the wall is solid.
Relatively speaking it appears solid. I think the key word is "appears". Some like to describe the universe as a hologram. It appears real, just as the images on a movie screen appear real. That makes sense to me.


james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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