Significance of thought

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DWBH1953
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:21 am

James wrote:Glycine wrote:
it is much more likely that the wall is solid.
Relatively speaking it appears solid. I think the key word is "appears". Some like to describe the universe as a hologram. It appears real, just as the images on a movie screen appear real. That makes sense to me.


james
Interesting I remember vividly many years ago when I was young I took like a 3 way hit of LSD by myself. Besides all the colors and disorination one thing stuck out from everything else and that was nothing was solid, when I grabbed a door handle I could feel my hand and handle melt into each other, no matter what I touched it was like slow moving jello.
If I rested my back against a wall I would feel myself sinking into the wall..
Ahh the good old day gone buy not forgotten.
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

tod
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by tod » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:27 am

Glycine wrote:You are right, Tod - but that is true only when there is only one person experimenting.
However, if there are several people experiencing the same thing (a solid wall) - it is much more likely that the wall is solid. These people may not have the same beliefs, but the wall is solid to all of them!
Are you saying these folk don't believe the wall is solid! And isn't this just a solid belief?

At what point do you believe thought/belief appears as matter?

James
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:41 am

Yes Randji,
I had an altered states experience years ago while meditating, it was as if I fell into another dimension unexpectedly. I experienced the body as a wisp of nearly weightless, fluctuating, undulating energy. It lasted nearly two hours, yet it seemed like only a few minutes had elapsed. It brought up a lot of old emotions that were released, and then tears of joy to my eyes. Of course some may say that the brain could produce such phenomena. I would say the brain is part of the hologram.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

doug
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by doug » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:46 am

"Are you saying these folk don't believe the wall is solid! And isn't this just a solid belief? "

look up "neutrino"...it's quite interesting really as these things pass through the Earth and us with ease...as in "not solid" :)

Juno
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Juno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:53 am

Relatively speaking it appears solid. I think the key word is "appears". Some like to describe the universe as a hologram. It appears real, just as the images on a movie screen appear real. That makes sense to me.
Hi James. I like what you said :)

The wall or a body can't exist without what's primary. The source/substance that everything is. That substance we can't grasp that so many assume is not here. Without it though nothing can be created. Once one gets to the bottom line, the source of everything, then it is understood why this world is refered to as an illusion. The world is an illusion is just a pointer after all is it not? It is fundamentally true.

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

Juno
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Juno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:00 am

Since what's primary comes first and without it the wall or body doesen't exist isn't IT, what's primary more the wall or body than the wall or body theirselves? IT continues to exist even when the body or wall are no longer here so which is the illusion?

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

James
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:33 am

Juno said:
The wall or a body can't exist without what's primary. The source/substance that everything is. That substance we can't grasp that so many assume is not here. Without it though nothing can be created. Once one gets to the bottom line, the source of everything, then it is understood why this world is refered to as an illusion.
Nicely put Monica

Ramana said:
The world is an illusion. Brahman alone is real. Brahman is the world.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

Juno
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Juno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:37 am

Just had to throw this in because it's so everything........... The world is illusion. Brahman alone is real. The world is Brahman.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

Juno
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Juno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:38 am

That's funny James we were on the same wave :)
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

James
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:43 am

Yes, same wavelength. Now the illusion called dinner is beckoning. :D

J.

ubuntu
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by ubuntu » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:12 am

Everything is solid/real in the dream state, where is it when you wake up? This world is just another dream state made by the mind.
There is only one thing I am certain of, I exist and I exist NOW.

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+Jim+
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by +Jim+ » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:15 am

randomguy wrote:There seems to be a running theme among non-dualist teaching that all thoughts are untrue. A thoroughly questioned mind is an open mind. An open mind is a creative tool.
Thoughts are images or descriptors.
When thought correlates with reality then that is very different from when thought has no basis in reality.
Thoughts about unicorns, fire-breathing dragons, what should have happened, what shouldn't have happened.... these are thoughts without a basis in reality.
Thoughts about the fact that lunch has just arrived and I'll let my wife know, do have a basis in reality.

This thread may also be of interest http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=8&t=4357
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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DWBH1953
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:45 pm

+Jim+ wrote:
randomguy wrote:There seems to be a running theme among non-dualist teaching that all thoughts are untrue. A thoroughly questioned mind is an open mind. An open mind is a creative tool.
Thoughts are images or descriptors.
When thought correlates with reality then that is very different from when thought has no basis in reality.
Thoughts about unicorns, fire-breathing dragons, what should have happened, what shouldn't have happened.... these are thoughts without a basis in reality.
Thoughts about the fact that lunch has just arrived and I'll let my wife know, do have a basis in reality.

This thread may also be of interest http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=8&t=4357
Yes and remember thoughts are not Yours so take no ownership of them and please do not take them home. What I see thoughts to be is really amazing they are like the Legos of building blocks of illusion which means they are illusion itself and at the same time builds objects of illusion, pretty cool when I think about it in that way and that is just another thought!
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

Glycine
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by Glycine » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:41 pm

When a small baby, who doesn't have any beliefs, tries to walk through a wall - Is he able to do it?
When someone who took psychedelic drugs, and sees everything around as a fluid, tries to walk through a wall - Is he able to do it?
When a golf ball, that doesn't have beliefs and doesn't think, is heading towards a wall - Is it going to bounce back or pass through?

Of course, everything depends on the size of the object trying to pass through another object without damaging. What appears solid to us, appears more like a fine mesh under the microscope. Small objects (photons, electrons, neutrinos) can easily pass through other objects without producing any damage. Ultimately, everything appears to be made of energy (that manifests sometimes as a wave, sometimes as a particle). But what does your direct experience tell you about matter?
And of course, we can't know almost anything with absolute certainty, but it is very tiresome to keep writing everything with lots of: "maybe, possibly, in my opinion, appears, almost, etc." Maybe this is why we need to stop thinking - when it comes to waking up!

Sometimes, I feel we are not consistent on this forum. On one hand, we praise the direct or indirect experience of Oneness of a few individuals. On the other hand, we deny the direct experience of most of the planet (like the inability to pass through a wall).

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DWBH1953
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Re: Significance of thought

Post by DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:11 pm

Glycine wrote:When a small baby, who doesn't have any beliefs, tries to walk through a wall - Is he able to do it?
When someone who took psychedelic drugs, and sees everything around as a fluid, tries to walk through a wall - Is he able to do it?
When a golf ball, that doesn't have beliefs and doesn't think, is heading towards a wall - Is it going to bounce back or pass through?

Of course, everything depends on the size of the object trying to pass through another object without damaging. What appears solid to us, appears more like a fine mesh under the microscope. Small objects (photons, electrons, neutrinos) can easily pass through other objects without producing any damage. Ultimately, everything appears to be made of energy (that manifests sometimes as a wave, sometimes as a particle).
And of course, we can't know almost anything with absolute certainty, but it is very tiresome to keep writing everything with lots of: "maybe, possibly, in my opinion, appears, almost, etc." Maybe this is why we need to stop thinking - when it comes to waking up!
There you go, you got it ! Always enjoy your posts Glycine.
A dear friend of mine Amirt Goswami speaks of a very little thing called a Quark which I guess is the smallest of smallest hell I dunno cuz I not berry smart but he say so.
Mr. Professor friend also say that when examines these little things seem to appear as something meaning something is there and nothing meaning nothing is there at the same time..now that makes me wanna think but wait the ladie oops lady that has wisdome say no think to wake up so for me I go now to no think some more..
Randji :lol:
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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