Stages of Growth

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Javonni
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Stages of Growth

Post by Javonni » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:13 am

Nondual philosophy seems to be the final truth but do you think it takes stages of growth to get to the understanding of it? For instance I started opening up spiritually at age 25 and now at age 56, I can look back and see stages I went through such as an interest in psychic phenomena, channeling, dream interpretation and so on. When i first opened up at age 25, I don't know that I would have understood nondual thought.

I do think Tolle has a gift for pointing people in the direction of nondual thought and he seems to be able to reach the masses with his writing. I sometimes wonder if his writings had been around 30 years ago, if I would have understood nondual right off the get go. I don't know. I tend to think my consciousness had to grow in stages.

Just wondering if you or anyone you know went from no spiritual interests to suddenly understanding nondual philosophy.

J.
When someone asks me who they are or what God is, I smile inside and whisper to the Light: "There you go again pretending."
~Adyashanti

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:06 am

Javonni wrote:Nondual philosophy seems to be the final truth but do you think it takes stages of growth to get to the understanding of it? For instance I started opening up spiritually at age 25 and now at age 56, I can look back and see stages I went through such as an interest in psychic phenomena, channeling, dream interpretation and so on. When i first opened up at age 25, I don't know that I would have understood nondual thought.

I do think Tolle has a gift for pointing people in the direction of nondual thought and he seems to be able to reach the masses with his writing. I sometimes wonder if his writings had been around 30 years ago, if I would have understood nondual right off the get go. I don't know. I tend to think my consciousness had to grow in stages.

Just wondering if you or anyone you know went from no spiritual interests to suddenly understanding nondual philosophy.

Also I want to add in no way am I saying that ET is just a average guy who got a experience and then went crazy with it. ET is a very gifted man so please do not take my little eassay in a way to take away from who ET is that was not my intention.

J.
Great question Javonni!
Just my take if I was exposed to non duality 30 years ago I certainly would have took it up.
Non duality was here way way before ET. ET just took a single experience he had and went mainstream with it. But William James in Beyond “The Varieties of Religious Experience”spoke of non duality, as did William Samuel and of course we have JK who became very popular for a time teaching non duality out of Ojai CA. The thing is I never knew of it until I started reading Nisargadatta Maharaj who again was way before ET.
It was through Nisargadatta Maharaj that I embraced non duality teachings and if I read I Am That before Auto'biography of a Yogi I am sure I would have saved myself a good 30 years of exploring.

In todays world I also see a bit of a problem with not only ET but many many of the current teachers and that it its very easy to hoodwink yourself that you really are awaken and finshed with it just because you read a few chapters of PON or whatever and because it resonated so well with you that now you feel I have arrived! Because non duality tends to be more of a dry type, intellectual type of path people think they are awaken just because they understand it with their minds. Nothing is farther from the truth than this. Ask anyone who is truly awaken about the happening and they wull tell you if they are geniune that a definate energtic shift happened. They may not know more than that but they will know this.
How this shift happens is still a mystery and who it happens to aslo but for myself I can tell you beyond any doubt it does not happen just because you understand the subject.
The reason why I am making this a point is to show why you have so many folks that are into non duality . Non duality has that great temption that I really do not have to do anything and I am enlighten, a lazy mans way to enlightenment so it is not a surpised when someone like ET comes out with a very well written book that you will have tons of folks taking on non duality as the idea of sliced bread or can of soup.
Still for the real seeker non duality is just as much a path of work as any other.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Javonni
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Javonni » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:21 am

There is no way I would have understood Nisargadatta Maharaj or Ramana in the beginning. I might have understood some of Tolle but I don't know for sure. It was actually A Course in Miracles that set the stage for my understanding of nonduality. Then one day I discovered Ramana on the net. I was reading on a website about his teachings and I didn't think it was for me and I didn't understand it but I had a strange curiosity to keep going back to the website and continue to read. Then, out of the blue, one day, it clicked with me and I developed a strong interest for it.

Non duality has that great temption that I really do not have to do anything and I am enlighten, a lazy mans way to enlightenment so it is not a surpised when someone like ET comes out with a very well written book that you will have tons of folks taking on non duality as the idea of sliced bread or can of soup.

That brings up another subject. There are some nondual teachers that say you don't really have to do anything to become enlightened. I don't believe that. For instance, Adyashanti spent years in meditation. He had a burning desire to become enlightened so I don't believe in the lazy man's way to enlightenment.



Anyway, this is all very interesting to me as I try and discipline myself. I appreciate your reply Randiji!

Javonni
When someone asks me who they are or what God is, I smile inside and whisper to the Light: "There you go again pretending."
~Adyashanti

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:38 am

[quote="Javonni"]There is no way I would have understood Nisargadatta Maharaj or Ramana in the beginning. I might have understood some of Tolle but I don't know for sure. It was actually A Course in Miracles that set the stage for my understanding of nonduality. Then one day I discovered Ramana on the net. I was reading on a website about his teachings and I didn't think it was for me and I didn't understand it but I had a strange curiosity to keep going back to the website and continue to read. Then, out of the blue, one day, it clicked with me and I developed a strong interest for it.

To me Ramana would be more diffcult tounderstand at first than Nisargadatta Maharaj.
The course would be something I would never be inclined to understand nor want just becuse it is to much of a programed deal. So it is hard to see the course as a opening for non duality however it is interesting that Oprah combines the two on her program she got Tolle and Marianne both working for her!


Non duality has that great temption that I really do not have to do anything and I am enlighten, a lazy mans way to enlightenment so it is not a surpised when someone like ET comes out with a very well written book that you will have tons of folks taking on non duality as the idea of sliced bread or can of soup.

]That brings up another subject. There are some nondual teachers that say you don't really have to do anything to become enlightened. I don't believe that. For instance, Adyashanti spent years in meditation. He had a burning desire to become enlightened so I don't believe in the lazy man's way to enlightenment.

Yes Adya now tells us he has gone through 3 seperate awakenings.
I follow very much what Tony Parsons teaches. Tony and I agree on everything 100%.
He belives that you can have several awakenings and then comes what he calls Liberation which is when the whole of the illusion collapses on you and the you of who you are in human form dissapears. There is no you of course there never was a you but in the world of illusion there is as this is how you relate to everything but when that dissapears you no longer relate as a person that part goes away forever.




Anyway, this is all very interesting to me as I try and discipline myself. I appreciate your reply Randiji!

de nada
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by kiki » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:31 am

Well, in my case I came across nonduality more than thirty years ago. I sensed there was something to it but I couldn't "grasp" it (gee, I wonder why :wink: ) so I continued with what I was doing, which was practicing a type of mantra meditation. I eventually became disillusioned with meditation too and was on the brink of dropping it. It was at that precise moment that I came across PON. Suddenly it "clicked", and when I revisited some of my old books by J Krishnamurti, Ramana, and Osho (then known as Rajneesh) I could not only understand what they were talking about but I was experiencing what they were describing (that's why I could understand it). So, in my case at least, there was a "ripening" that seemed to be necessary.
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Javonni
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Javonni » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:42 am

Randi, I haven't read Tony Parsons-yet!

ACIM is unique with its Christian spin but it is definitely nondual.
When someone asks me who they are or what God is, I smile inside and whisper to the Light: "There you go again pretending."
~Adyashanti

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Javonni
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Javonni » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:46 am

So, in my case at least, there was a "ripening" that seemed to be necessary.

Kiki, I would imagine this is true for most. Thanks for your reply!

Javonni
When someone asks me who they are or what God is, I smile inside and whisper to the Light: "There you go again pretending."
~Adyashanti

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:49 am

Javonni wrote:Randi, I haven't read Tony Parsons-yet!

ACIM is unique with its Christian spin but it is definitely nondual.
Non dual with all those rules and things well really I no nothing about it except big books and tons of reading never was my kind of thing but you say non dual Ok then..
Tony is great he is one of the very rare ones that I see as the most humble and awaken of all of them but that just me.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:55 am

kiki wrote:Well, in my case I came across nonduality more than thirty years ago. I sensed there was something to it but I couldn't "grasp" it (gee, I wonder why :wink: ) so I continued with what I was doing, which was practicing a type of mantra meditation. I eventually became disillusioned with meditation too and was on the brink of dropping it. It was at that precise moment that I came across PON. Suddenly it "clicked", and when I revisited some of my old books by J Krishnamurti, Ramana, and Osho (then known as Rajneesh) I could not only understand what they were talking about but I was experiencing what they were describing (that's why I could understand it). So, in my case at least, there was a "ripening" that seemed to be necessary.
I understand completley. To be real honest it is near impossible to really get thoses teachings if you have not awaken some. When I first read Ramana and he would say
something like there is no you in the world as you think you are there is just the Self and you are that Self I have no idea until later when I really awoke to what he was talking about. It is like a magic key once a person awakes then they understand it all but before then it is more or less guess work.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Sighclone » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:25 am

My "path' was much like kiki's - 34 years of TM, lots of reading, no awakening, then ET, a breakthrough and now long periods of deep clarity and joy, plus some cool synchronous stuff. I won't ever wear a label, but the really big picture is emerging. And I am not part of it. :)

People tend to downplay the psychological benefits of Tolle's teaching, that is, until you read the countless posts here of those who have had deep suffering and are now finding profound relief. Of course, that should not be a surprise, I suppose, that something as life-validating as awakening, as self-realizing, should end the feedback loops to insanity.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:04 am

Sighclone wrote:My "path' was much like kiki's - 34 years of TM, lots of reading, no awakening, then ET, a breakthrough and now long periods of deep clarity and joy, plus some cool synchronous stuff. I won't ever wear a label, but the really big picture is emerging. And I am not part of it. :)

People tend to downplay the psychological benefits of Tolle's teaching, that is, until you read the countless posts here of those who have had deep suffering and are now finding profound relief. Of course, that should not be a surprise, I suppose, that something as life-validating as awakening, as self-realizing, should end the feedback loops to insanity.

Namaste, Andy
Andy what do you mean you lost me here.
I won't ever wear a label, but the really big picture is emerging. And I am not part of it. :)

OMG 34 years in TM, a question were you one of the sort of elect higher ones. Sorry I do not know how else to put it. TM has some members that have a very high status among TM. They go where the Guru tells them, they invested not only their lives but lots and lots of money. If you know for example the group of them that went to Blowing Rock Noth Carolina and built and live in some beautiful homes there because they were told to.
Each home wasbuilt using Vedic knowledge. You know what I am talking about Andy?
Just curious because I know a few of them up there.
Actually that is one major benefit from Non duality accross the board the removal of suffering but this is not something that is just ET teachings there are tons of people in non duality that have received this benefit and do not know Tolle only by name perhaps and never read his books. Saying goodbye to suffering in a natural outcome of waking up.

Do you still use TM?
Thanks for the sharing.
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Sighclone » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:28 pm

Nah - I just practiced the technique wherever I was. I'm not a joiner.

I'm sorry I was unclear - life is different for me in a large and important way. I will never wear the label of an enlightened being. People don't "get enlightened." They disappear. Recall Adya: "the end of your world" and a "demolition project."

Namaste, Andy

But my personality remains.

Hey, I'm very impressed with Scott Kiloby's book "Love's Quiet Revolution." He is a fine nondual writer.
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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DWBH1953
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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:33 pm

Sighclone wrote:Nah - I just practiced the technique wherever I was. I'm not a joiner.

I'm sorry I was unclear - life is different for me in a large and important way. I will never wear the label of an enlightened being. People don't "get enlightened." They disappear. Recall Adya: "the end of your world" and a "demolition project."

Namaste, Andy

But my personality remains.

Hey, I'm very impressed with Scott Kiloby's book "Love's Quiet Revolution." He is a fine nondual writer.
Thanks for sharing..Yes that is a great way of putting it they dissapear.
If you are ever in California please try to go see John Sherman if you can.
Hes a close friend and I know he would not mind me saying this, John is very close to dissapearing so much so that if you ever do a 1 day thing with him you really get a little nervous that he may not make it through to the finished!
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by Sighclone » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:10 am

I've been on John Sherman's site - he writes well and he is the guy who found himself without a head at one point - very amusing and yet meaningful experience.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Stages of Growth

Post by DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:16 am

Sighclone wrote:I've been on John Sherman's site - he writes well and he is the guy who found himself without a head at one point - very amusing and yet meaningful experience.


Namaste, Andy
Hes the real thing. He lived close by when I lived in Ojai CA and I would open up my house for him to do Satsangs and retreats and always a joy to have around. John has a way of talking about non duality in language that is very understandable.
The other thing I love about John is he is not money hungry like so many are today.
Always by donations all are welome.
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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