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Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:55 pm
by weichen
Hermitloon wrote,
The single greatest impediment to self-realization is language
How about rephrasing this to: One of the greatest impediments to deeper self-realization is unscientific language.

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:54 pm
by kiki
weichen wrote:How about rephrasing this to: One of the greatest impediments to deeper self-realization is unscientific language.
I suspect that HL wouldn't rephrase his statement, but I'll let him speak for himself. Here is my response to what you said: What does language (which is nothing but concept) of any kind have to do with Self-realization? To paraphrase Thomas Keating: "The language of 'Self' is silence - everything else is a poor translation." All language is "noise", and no matter how finely tuned it is in describing Self it falls short - it can't improve or deepen realization. Perhaps you could explain more by what you mean weichen, because quite frankly your statement doesn't make sense to me (no offense intended).

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:13 am
by weichen
One of the greatest impediments to deeper self-realization is unscientific language
Kiki,
I am not sure how to explain the meaning of the above statement further.

How about: scientific approach is the only hope for deepening self-realization (at a level beyond Tolle)

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:11 am
by randomguy
weichen wrote:How about: scientific approach is the only hope for deepening self-realization (at a level beyond Tolle)
Well this has my attention. I find the scientific method to be a sound practice. I find myself questioning the "only hope" part of your statement, but I am curious, how can a scientific approach deepen self realization?

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:13 am
by Glycine
weichen wrote:How about: scientific approach is the only hope for deepening self-realization (at a level beyond Tolle)
Science was apparently created by consciousness, just like everything else.
The way I see it, science has an important role in the "unfolding of life" or "dance of forms". Science is an integral part of creation.
However, so far, science has done next to nothing when it comes to "self-realization".

Weichen has a point: confusing language doesn't help our mental understanding. However, awakening seems to have very little to do with understanding. Understanding is just another dance of forms.

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:17 am
by DWBH1953
weichen wrote:
How about: scientific approach is the only hope for deepening self-realization (at a level beyond Tolle)
Are you using the word Science to include Quantum Physics . Are you familiar with folks like Amirt Goswami?
Peace
Randji

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:41 am
by weichen
Matter and Energy are two very different concept. they do not mix with each other. This belief is broken when physicist shows that matter can convert to energy. (Atomic bomb, H bomb etc).

Human history has repeatedly showed that seemingly distinct concepts are eventually one.

From the deepest of your heart, is there any doubt that science (truth about material world)and spirit (self realization, spiritual truth, etc) is one?

Re: A question to the group-Reality Check

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:03 am
by DWBH1953
weichen wrote: From the deepest of your heart, is there any doubt that science (truth about material world)and spirit (self realization, spiritual truth, etc) is one?
Oneness is all there is, that is what I know from the deepest in my heart.
Science the truth about this material world is always envoling and changing.
Spirit which I look at as being Awareness is the Ultimate, non changing truth of all.
That is my sense of how things really are.
Peac
Randji