Do we each have a unique soul?

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kiki
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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by kiki » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:00 am

A public note to eputkonen. Thank you for your steady hand here in explaining things with such clarity. It is much appreciated. I especially like this:
Solipsism would say that only Tara existed and that anything that appears, appears in Tara's mind and perceptions.

Nondualism says that even this idea of Tara is also an appearance (obviously not for Tara since she is appearance only.)

So that leaves this ungraspable 'open space' in which things appear.

This is Consciousness.
kiki
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great2be
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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by great2be » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:21 pm

eputkonen wrote:
great2be wrote:This all very well and true for sleep induced dreaming, but the life lived during the day when awake can never be described in the same way - it definitely is not all a dream.
Are you saying it is all a dream Eric?
Yes...life is but a dream (row, row, row, your boat :lol: ).
There really is no difference between "life lived during the day" and "life lived during sleep in dreams". In both, if you kick a rock it hurts...and we implicitly believe the world we are in is real - while in that world.
More clarification is required....
1. So which world is Eric Putkonen in?
2. What would you call the world that would be where I (great2be) would be if I awoke from the day dream?
3. Is Eric a dream or a dreamer?
4. Does Eric or anyone have any control over the contents of their dreams?
An imaginary seeker, seeking an imaginary goal.
Realise the nature of imagination and the fallacious effort ends.

Have you ever seen a dog chasing it's tail?

What happens when the dog runs faster?

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by heidi » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:56 pm

So that leaves this ungraspable 'open space' in which things appear.

This is Consciousness.
This is the energy of all creation; the soul that we all share; the reason that religions can say we live on after death. That 'we' is the oneness.
Any uniqueness would only be in our perception of it.
Heidi
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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by wander » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:39 pm

Hmm well i dont have anything to add to thiis whole dream discussion, its gotten kinda complicated for me. But i wanna share something i thought of last night.

So my whole understanding of this whole thing was/is that the Self (the thing we all share) has just gotten identified as being a mind/body. BUt then when one says that we are all the same self that kinda destroys that idea. becasue: if we were all the same self, then the self is identified with the bodymind called adam, wouldnt be identified as that because it would have been the same self the buddha had and would have realized its erorr. right?

But maybe i have been wrong. Its not the self that identifies with the ego, its the ego that has gotten identified with the bodymind! The ego (the mass of unique energy that was created by th true self to manifest??) is what has been reincarnated. The ego (that energy mass ) has been a rock, a tree, a dog or whatever and is now a human mind. And since it now has the capabilities to think for it self it has done the "logical' thing and seen itself as this bodymind. So the purpuse of spirituality is to not for the Self to realise what it is but for the ego to realise that it is Self. But then of course i come into the problem of then the ego is still the I. But it kind of has to be right becuase for self to experience itself as joy it must have a human mind to expereince it as i have read the unmanifested self is beyond joy. So the only option to experience itself was to create an energy that could manifest. And each of us is that unique energy field which was created by God. So while it is unique it stil lis god as well.
However i think i also came to the conclusion that trying to figure out what i am is kinda futile. And i have read this to of course. Ive go to jsut focus on what i am not (the mind, the body, thoughts ect.)

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by wander » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:58 pm

more to add.. the ego can never truley die before the body right? While the I no longer would have to be identifed as the body and mind, the ego still has plenty of utility (working, eating, breathing ect.)


ah this is all so confusing ha ha.

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by heidi » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:13 pm

more to add.. the ego can never truley die before the body right?
If the mind goes, so does the ego in some situations. I recall a friend with alzheimer's who it really felt as though his body was just hanging around without any of the mind stuff or living "soul" - the stuff those who knew him would consider his manifested essence.
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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by Glycine » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:23 pm

heidi wrote:I recall a friend with alzheimer's who it really felt as though his body was just hanging around without any of the mind stuff or living "soul"
Would it be acceptable to say that your friend has become "unadulterated awareness" - just as a young child is?

Our ability to project into the future and ponder the past is given by a small area of our brain - in the frontal lobes. People who lose part of the frontal lobes due to accidents or surgery can live "healthy lives", but cannot understand the concept of future anymore. They can have normal conversations, except that when asked about the future ("What are you going to do in one hour" or "one day") they become blank. There are numerous cases documented in psychology books. It makes me wonder where "exactly" the "ego" is located - since it is most likely in the brain.

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by tod » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:56 pm

The ego is a personal thought process that is thought to look after the human body, but it is the cause of the dis-ease of the body. In it's extremity this dis-ease may take the form of Alzheimer's or dementia which is a shutting down of this thought process.

The human body comes into existence when thought about (thought up); it is made up from sensations and memory. Thus, being a thought-form, it has no real need to be looked after, it is just believed in.

The question is - Is anyone really believing in this?

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by eputkonen » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:32 pm

kiki wrote:A public note to eputkonen. Thank you for your steady hand here in explaining things with such clarity. It is much appreciated. I especially like this:
Solipsism would say that only Tara existed and that anything that appears, appears in Tara's mind and perceptions.

Nondualism says that even this idea of Tara is also an appearance (obviously not for Tara since she is appearance only.)

So that leaves this ungraspable 'open space' in which things appear.

This is Consciousness.
kiki
Thanks Kiki, but that quote is not mine...it's Fenn's quote. Good one BTW Fenn!
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by eputkonen » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:39 pm

great2be wrote: More clarification is required....
1. So which world is Eric Putkonen in?
2. What would you call the world that would be where I (great2be) would be if I awoke from the day dream?
3. Is Eric a dream or a dreamer?
4. Does Eric or anyone have any control over the contents of their dreams?
1. Eric Putkonen is the label for a character or personal in the waking dream some call real life.
2. That is just it..."great2be" never wakes up. That "I" is also a part of the dream.
3. Eric would be a dream.
4. Yes. Lucid dreamers are known for realizing they are dreaming and then controlling their dreams. This is where siddhis or spiritual powers come in.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by Onceler » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:02 am

eputkonen wrote: 2. That is just it..."great2be" never wakes up. That "I" is also a part of the dream.
Wouldn't dying be waking up?
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:50 am

It seems that great2be cannot wake up, as g2b is not real beyond the dream of being g2b, What ever conscious being that imagines itself to be g2b, will wake up out of the experience of living as g2b.

WW

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by great2be » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:21 am

eputkonen wrote:
great2be wrote: More clarification is required....
1. So which world is Eric Putkonen in?
2. What would you call the world that would be where I (great2be) would be if I awoke from the day dream?
3. Is Eric a dream or a dreamer?
4. Does Eric or anyone have any control over the contents of their dreams?
1. Eric Putkonen is the label for a character or personal in the waking dream some call real life.
2. That is just it..."great2be" never wakes up. That "I" is also a part of the dream.
3. Eric would be a dream.
4. Yes. Lucid dreamers are known for realizing they are dreaming and then controlling their dreams. This is where siddhis or spiritual powers come in.
So who is writing these responses, Eric the dream or a lucid dreamer with siddhis?
An imaginary seeker, seeking an imaginary goal.
Realise the nature of imagination and the fallacious effort ends.

Have you ever seen a dog chasing it's tail?

What happens when the dog runs faster?

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:13 pm

Onceler wrote:Wouldn't dying be waking up?
Dying certainly looks like waking up.
Maybe awakening while still alive is due to the "voluntary suicide" of the ego!

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Re: Do we each have a unique soul?

Post by Onceler » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:29 pm

Webwanderer wrote:It seems that great2be cannot wake up, as g2b is not real beyond the dream of being g2b, What ever conscious being that imagines itself to be g2b, will wake up out of the experience of living as g2b.

WW
Got it. Something that is not real cannot do a real thing...
Be present, be pleasant.

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