The End of Seeking

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Webwanderer
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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:29 pm

+Jim+ wrote:
Webwanderer wrote:
This is a waste of time. All spiritual seeking is a waste of time. It is a waste of life.
What then, is not a waste of time, and life? To assert that one thing, such as spiritual seeking is a waste, does it not then follow that some other activity is more productive and not a waste? If so, What? If on the other hand everything is a waste, then can anything actually be a waste without something better to compare it to?
If one isn't wasting time on spiritual seeking, then one's time can be spent living a life in reality.
One would be available to spend quality time with family, friends and new aquaintances. Time for singing, dancing, sitting, walking, watching..... there's so much in life that is worth doing.
Yet if one is plagued by a conditioned ego perspective, filled with misrepresentations as to the nature of self/life, that brings constant (or even occasional) suffering to consciousness, can a search for truth not bring clarity and freedom from such suffering? Examples: concepts of isolating judgments, such as hate and fear, predudice and condemnation, and their endless derivatives. Is not a search for truth into the nature of one's own being a spiritual search of sorts? And isn't clarity into the nature of being an opportunity to free one's perspective from such damaging concepts and their related suffering?
+Jim+ wrote:
Even in the moments when it appears to exist, is there actually something called "ego" or is there an
imagining of it?
It seems easy to attack the ego sense of being as not real, but what exactly is not real? ...the ego, or the imagining of it? What I'm getting at is: is experience real? You are sitting there reading this post (or at least imagine yourself to be :wink: ). As much as the form and content of what's present may fairly be pointed out as being imaginary in the greater sense of awareness, does it also follow that the experience of the imaginary construct is also imaginary?
WW
The ego isn't real - a sincere investigation will reveal that.
The first post of this thread was a wonderfully clear example of such an investigation.

Only an investigation into the nature of reality and the role of thought and imagination will clarify your last point.
Good luck!
If we stipulate that the ego isn't real as an actual identity, can we consider the nature of experience itself? Can experience be imaginary? Certainly interpretation can be imaginary, as that reflects back on the mind. But what is the nature of pure, undefined experience...real or imaginary? Its beauty is that realization of any truth can be clearly seen only in stillness, free of analysis.

And what is an "investigation into the nature of reality and..." if not a spiritual search? It seems the search itself is not the waste, but rather the potential for waste lies in where and how (intellectually vs experiencially) one looks for understanding. If one seeks only through the mind for some analytical order in ever more cycles of refinement, searching can be a lifelong distraction indeed. I make this point to bring some clarity on the distinction of seeking through mental refinement of analytical concepts, and seeking through genuine experience.

WW

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by HermitLoon » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:25 pm

Yes WW! :D - Thank You.
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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by +Jim+ » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:43 pm

And what is an "investigation into the nature of reality and..." if not a spiritual search?
That was written in response to your questions - i.e.
It seems easy to attack the ego sense of being as not real, but what exactly is not real? ...the ego, or the imagining of it? What I'm getting at is: is experience real? You are sitting there reading this post (or at least imagine yourself to be :wink: ). As much as the form and content of what's present may fairly be pointed out as being imaginary in the greater sense of awareness, does it also follow that the experience of the imaginary construct is also imaginary?
WW
From here, there is no confusion and so no search.
I suggest you keep it simple and perhaps read or re-read the first message in this thread.
Life is simple when there is no confusion over what is real and what is imagination.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by HermitLoon » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:35 pm

:)
Last edited by HermitLoon on Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by Glycine » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:45 pm

In my opinion - the ego and the mind are just as "real or imaginary" as our bodies are.
If we feel our bodies as real, at least temporarily, then we should consider that the ego and the mind are real as well.

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by aquarius123esoteric » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:35 pm

Dear Glycine - I share this view; thank you for expressing it here.

With love - Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe

You can find my writings and download
them free of charge from my website
www.raysofwisdom.com

* * *

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by +Jim+ » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:22 pm

Glycine wrote:In my opinion - the ego and the mind are just as "real or imaginary" as our bodies are.
If we feel our bodies as real, at least temporarily, then we should consider that the ego and the mind are real as well.
Do you really mean opinion Glycine?
Because opinion really means that I don't know, but it's my best guess.
Someone will undoubtably hold the opposite opinion, now there are 2 people who think the opposite of each other and neither truly knows!

Can you begin to see the limitations of opinion?

Can a body be found?
Can a thought be found?
Can an image be found?
Can an ego be found?
Can a mind be found?

Observation, quite different from opinion!
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by Glycine » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:37 pm

Yes, +Jim+, I do mean opinion.
My words above are based on observation, but they are still just my best guess - as you mentioned.
This is what the present moment is showing me. Nevertheless, I am willing to change my opinions.
Currently, I am able to find a body, thoughts, ego, and mind - be they imaginary or real.
My current view is that the ego and the mind are very similar to the body - the same kind of illusion or reality.

As you mentioned, opinions are limited indeed - and it would be nice to have something that is "unlimited" and "unquestionable".

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by tod » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:23 pm

Glycine wrote: My words above are based on observation, but they are still just my best guess - as you mentioned.
This is what the present moment is showing me.
I observe that all the present moment is showing me is sensation. That from sensation I construct something, and that I may observe this construction. That I may at times, become lost in this construction and start guessing or having opinions about what I have constructed.

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by +Jim+ » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:18 pm

Glycine wrote:Yes, +Jim+, I do mean opinion.
My words above are based on observation, but they are still just my best guess - as you mentioned.
This is what the present moment is showing me. Nevertheless, I am willing to change my opinions.
Currently, I am able to find a body, thoughts, ego, and mind - be they imaginary or real.
My current view is that the ego and the mind are very similar to the body - the same kind of illusion or reality.

As you mentioned, opinions are limited indeed - and it would be nice to have something that is "unlimited" and "unquestionable".
There is a world of difference between what is real and what is imaginary.... as the original piece pointed out, one can imagine a troupe of dancing elephants wearing pink underwear....... but they have no actual reality.
It's just a matter of being clear about what is real and what is imagined.
Treating thoughts/images that have no corresponding counterpart in reality as signifying something real is where the confusion begins.
Thoughts are only ever images of something, that something either truly exists or it doesn't.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by Glycine » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:27 pm

Sometimes, the difference between real and imaginary seems to be conceptual only.
The difference seems to be statistical:
- what most people perceive in the same way is considered real, especially if it can be shared (experienced simultaneously)
- what few people perceive is considered imaginary

To me, thoughts are as real as "solid" matter.
Thoughts are not identical with "frozen" matter, but "as real as" matter.
Matter changes and transforms just as thoughts do, but at different rates.

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Re: The End of Seeking

Post by karmarider » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:37 am

Excellent piece, thanks for posting it. Arjuna has a nice about getting right to the essence.

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