Is the waking world a dream?

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Is the waking world a dream?

Yes
10
53%
No
3
16%
Don't know
6
32%
 
Total votes: 19

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great2be
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Is the waking world a dream?

Post by great2be » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:58 am

There are often comments by various people that the world is but a dream.
They're not talking about nighttime dreaming, they mean this daily life, including this forum, the stars, the trees, the oceans, the deserts, the birds and animals, 6 billion people, EVERYTHING!

I'm interested to know how common that perspective is.
An imaginary seeker, seeking an imaginary goal.
Realise the nature of imagination and the fallacious effort ends.

Have you ever seen a dog chasing it's tail?

What happens when the dog runs faster?

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Webwanderer
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:09 pm

I suspect the answer is not so black and white. Even in a limited context such as a building. Is it a dream? Sort of. If seen from its componant parts of concrete and steel, and all the myriad items that go into its construction, one could argue that it is assembled to appear as a building, that in reality it's just a bunch of lessor parts. One could continue to take the basic parts and apply the same deconstructive logic until there is nothing left to percieve but energy appearing as matter.

However, another way to percieve reality is through experience. Is experience real? We experience the assemblage of the componant parts of the building as a building and not as the parts, unless of course one intentionally switches perspective. Granted experience of events and conditions differ depending on the perceptual lenses through which one percieves them. IE, "that's an ugly building" vs "that's a beautiful building". Same building, different experience. But that seems to be the nature of life in form - experience through filters of concept and judgment, or ever clearer levels of experience through identification-free presence-awareness.

Even in this relatively clearer state however, there is perspective. How else would one explain the differing views of the members of this forum, or the awakened teachers past and present? Perspective may be imaginary, but is the experience not real? What is awareness if not a vehicle to experience?

WW

HermitLoon
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by HermitLoon » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:35 pm

Truth is always Truth
Illusions come and go
Honor curiosity - Investigate
Are you that which you have been led to believe you are?
Peace

Fenn
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by Fenn » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:08 pm

great2be wrote:There are often comments by various people that the world is but a dream.
They're not talking about nighttime dreaming, they mean this daily life, including this forum, the stars, the trees, the oceans, the deserts, the birds and animals, 6 billion people, EVERYTHING!

I'm interested to know how common that perspective is.
The world as a dream can be a useful analogy - a teaching device.

But I've noticed that 'dream' has slightly different meanings in different contexts.

In Buddhism they might use a phrase like 'the dream of separation' - pointing out that separation is in fact an illusion. They do not say that the world is an illusion - just that it is empty of permanence and separation.

In Advaita it is said that the world of phenomena is neither real or unreal - they use the word 'mithya' (neither real or unreal.) The world is an appearance of the one substrate, Brahman. So, carpets and computers and clouds... are THAT. They are an appearance of the One. It certainly doesn't make things unreal as such, but their true nature is Oneness. In this context things may be said to be dreamlike.

Often in nonduality we hear that reality is like a dream... it all just simply arises - including the idea that it arises for someone. Yet it is simply a non-personal unfolding of light, sound, form... like a film, a play, a dream.

Different communicators use the dream pointer in different ways - some more literally than others.


Fenn

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great2be
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by great2be » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:55 am

It appears that my question was not clear enough.

I'm asking about the notion that the WHOLE world of form is a dream.
The trees, seas, mountains, etc.
Many people state that we create it all, and that when the dream is over there will be no form whatsoever!
I'm not asking for your interpretations of other's teachings, I want to know how you see it.

I saw a cartoon recently that relates to this question, I'll attach it below, maybe that will make the question clearer.

It's also interesting that this page has been viewed 70+ times already and only 5 votes.

Craig
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by Craig » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:20 am

I wonder how many here have the courage to admit "I don't know"?
Who am I?

tod
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by tod » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:43 pm

My experience is that I appear to be sometimes in thought, sometimes in this world, and sometimes see this world as thought. If I were to conclude something from this, it would be that all this is thought - but I see that concluding, is, once again, thought.

lanroh
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by lanroh » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:58 pm

Questioner: Does a Gnani die? (an awakened being)



Maharaj: He is beyond life and death. What we take to be in inevitable--to be born and to die-- appears to him but a way of expressing movement in the immovable, change in the changeless, end in the endless. To the gnani it is obvious that nothing is born and nothing dies, nothing last and nothing changes, all is as it is--- timelessly.



The key word here is time, in a sense questions are time machines, time is the vehicle that dreams are made of.

Glycine
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by Glycine » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:16 am

The world appears to us as being real.
However, considering how everything changes, it is probably some kind of illusion.
Given enough time, even the Earth and the Sun will disappear. Once they disappear, were they real or imaginary?

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tikey
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by tikey » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:24 am

do You suggest that we live in some kind of MATRIX? There was a film about that, and it was boring...
Im just a cloudless sky :)

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tikey
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by tikey » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:25 am

Craig wrote:I wonder how many here have the courage to admit "I don't know"?
I DONT HAVE :D
Im just a cloudless sky :)

tod
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by tod » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:02 am

Glycine wrote:The world appears to us as being real.
However, considering how everything changes, it is probably some kind of illusion.
Given enough time, even the Earth and the Sun will disappear. Once they disappear, were they real or imaginary?
If you go to the end of the universe in space and look back, how do you see that? We know our assumptions via the investigation of their limits.

lanroh
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by lanroh » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:16 pm

Hi tikey
do You suggest that we live in some kind of MATRIX? There was a film about that, and it was boring...
It is amazing to observe how each of us act as if we are living in different worlds. Republicans, democrats, socialist, communist, cathlic, jewish, muslem, black, white, gay, stright. The matrix is that we are living in such divisions.

I can still remember playing in the school yard before the matrix :)

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eagle2phoenix
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by eagle2phoenix » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:53 am

It is a very long.... dream that 6 million people are dreaming. We are born into this reality which is made up of learned perceptions and conditioning of what the world looks like. I wonder what babies see in this realm? I wonder what people who can see beyond see? Is it just light? Atoms?

We are told that babies see things in black and white (and shades of grey) when they are less than 6 months old. They can only see close ups. As we grow up, we start to see things in larger perspectives. Now we are made to believe that we are part of a whole, like our body. Just as my body is made up of billions of cells, we are like a drop of water in the ocean.

Makes us seem so insignificant.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

Soul Seeker
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Re: Is the waking world a dream?

Post by Soul Seeker » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:34 pm

I read the following article in New Scientist the other day - it ties into what Dr Thomas Campbell speaks of in My Big Toe


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... ogram.html
It ties in with what Dr Thomas Campbell speaks of in My Big Toe

The following link from New Scientist is also worth a read

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... -mind.html

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