Manifesting from Pure Awareness

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6235
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Sighclone » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:14 am

I'd like to start (restart?) a thread devoted to manfesting after awakening. Certainly anyone can post here.

Questions:

1) How is it different from manifesting from unconsciousness?

2) Is the increase in synchronicity, or in ETs terms "life brings you what you need" actually a form of manifesting, i.e. is there a subtle level of willpower involved or not? When something just seems to happen as a coincidence, at some level we know it is not a coincidence, but is there a level at which we know "we" created it "on purpose?"

3) Can we will something with much more effectiveness than before awakening?

4) Are events or objects which we label as "manifestations" just incidental ripples?

See me not answer...I have some hunches, and some personal experiences, but no certainty on these things.

Speculations or experiences?....

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Glycine » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:52 pm

If we consider that awakening is the realization that the individual, the "me", does not actually exist, then all questions become irrelevant. The world of form continues undisturbed (as pre-destined).
Each question is a struggle of the "non-existing" individual to define its boundaries.
I do struggle with those questions as well. But even when all questions disappear, we could still be in a dream. The dream seems to end when we let go of absolutely everything.
I'm looking forward to see the other replies!

HermitLoon
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Good Question

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by HermitLoon » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:08 pm

"i" don't know.

It does seem to be that "Pure Awareness" (experience without labels - language - "wordthoughts") - is "more clear" - "more real"

Namaste Andy :)
Peace

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6453
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:23 pm

One school will argue that there is no doer, and being there's no one to do there can be no free will. Further that "things" just happen arising and falling within awareness. But this "appears" to fly in the face of some very obvious interaction that everyone experiences in their ongoing life. "Shall I have another cup of coffee - yes?.. no?" There seems to be endless choices available that is not entirely explained by the "no doer" concept. Indeed, what is the nature of learning, or the growth from misperception to clarity based upon volition?

My take is that in the world of form, we live (for the most part) in a closed system of being. That, while the "me" that appears to exist through identification with thought is a conceptual attachment to ideas, there is a "self" whose nature is fundamentally different and transcends all conceptual structures - an intelligent essential being. This self is recognized in stillness. This self is what recognizes. It is this self that can choose and create within the designed limitations of the system. It doen't mean anything is possible, but a great deal is depending on one's adeptness of the rules. I know of no one who has been able to sprout wings and fly, but some very creative beings managed to build airplanes - and fly we do.

It's been said that the whole world is a stage. But who or what writes the play, and for what purpose? It's one thing to create an environment for unique interaction; but is this stage just the playground of a Master Puppeteer who controls the slightest details of all the puppets, or is it an environment for the development of co-creators that must learn their skills from the mailroom on up?

Now I don't mean to be mundane and suggest that the world and growth is about creating "stuff". There are far more important matters to attend to in development of the qualities of being. How do we relate to each other and life in general? Transcending the ego perspective seems to be a key step in moving up the ladder of clarity; although love and acceptance, even through the ego, has great qualitative value.

I admit that I am not yet entirely clear on this, but I look to what is without bias as best I can. It is what it is and I can only hold each new concept with honest suspicion and let it unfold in awareness as it will.

Anyway, that's the view from here on this beautiful Saturday morning, with azaleas blooming fiercly, having no care what-so-ever for what or who they are - just doing what they do for no reason at all and blessing my day. Maybe their's is the best message of all. :D

WW

User avatar
heidi
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by heidi » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:00 pm

Yum, my specialty. :)
1) How is it different from manifesting from unconsciousness?
Consciousness is a state of allowing - so the allowing is where things are able to manifest freely.
Depending on the type of "unconsciousness" you mean, in one case ones manifesting might be attracting "negative" or unwanted things; in another manifestation by default happens. The universe is giving you what you need whether you think you need it or not.
2) Is the increase in synchronicity, or in ETs terms "life brings you what you need" actually a form of manifesting, i.e. is there a subtle level of willpower involved or not? When something just seems to happen as a coincidence, at some level we know it is not a coincidence, but is there a level at which we know "we" created it "on purpose?"
Again, it's all about allowing. When you are in a state of allowing then you are much more aware of synchronicity. Not so much will power, as openness.
3) Can we will something with much more effectiveness than before awakening?
We aren't "willing" things to manifest; we are allowing them to. :)
4) Are events or objects which we label as "manifestations" just incidental ripples?
Good question, Andy. My hunch is that how we view this "illusion" of our manifested world is total manifestation.
When "good" things or "bad" things manifest in our lives, it's more about how we see them than anything else. How many people do you know who had something "bad" happen, and a little while down the road, look back in awe and realize what a blessing it was. ;) So whether the incidental ripples are soft and comforting or huge storm swells; it's all about how we ride them - allow them.
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave

User avatar
moonmissy
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Contact:

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by moonmissy » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:19 am

Questions:

1) How is it different from manifesting from unconsciousness?

No difference, except you lose the unnecessary suffering

2) Is the increase in synchronicity, or in ETs terms "life brings you what you need" actually a form of manifesting, i.e. is there a subtle level of willpower involved or not? When something just seems to happen as a coincidence, at some level we know it is not a coincidence, but is there a level at which we know "we" created it "on purpose?"

It's always there, but when you're unconscious you're fixated on the suffering and judging. There are no purpose. To have purpose is to predisposed that there is a will. "We" certainly don't create anything since there is no "We".

3) Can we will something with much more effectiveness than before awakening?

Awakening is about giving up total control, desiring, wanting, any distortion of what is. No one to have a will.

4) Are events or objects which we label as "manifestations" just incidental ripples?

All manifestation of forms are illusory in nature, the waves don't really exist, only the water.

See me not answer...I have some hunches, and some personal experiences, but no certainty on these things.

Speculations or experiences?....

Dive into the now, allow things to be. Find out for yourself. No answer here can do it justice.
Before and after there exist not one
Why attachments?

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6235
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Sighclone » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:05 pm

What wonderful comments all...thanks!

And nobody took the bait. Sometimes I throw out questions which have a subtle test in them. I was wondering if someone might say, in answer to question #1: "Why yes, Andy, manifesting by an enlightened being like myself is much different. Now, with all my vast powers and wisdom, I can manifest much more effectively both for myself and others."

Now, my little sentence above sounds pathetically egoic. But there is some truth in it. Eckhart could not have written either of his books from unconsciousness, nor have been interested in the topic or effective in either his audio productions or serminars.

He also does reference manifesting in his chapter on Enthusiasm starting on p. 301 of ANE...specifically,"Through enthusiasm you enter into full alignment with the outgoing creative principle of the universe..." He refers to waves of enthusiasm which come and go.

So, my answer to the first question is yes. Does my little life always demonstrate that? No, but it sometimes does.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

lanroh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: Kingman AZ

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by lanroh » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:12 pm

Manifesting from pure awareness.


Hi Andy

It seems this is what we are doing all the time. Duality seems to be the false sense of departure. The departure from pure awareness to observer. I am trying to grasp at this very moment how time as past and future becomes the vehicle for this departure.

The only problem is the observer keeps on vanishing :)

James
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by James » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:45 pm

We could make the distinction between intentional manifesting and Unintentional manifesting.
It seems intentional manifesting is a step along the way in awakening. Apparently it is a necessary step, since that is what is happens. The discovery of the mind and how it operates in one's experience in relationship to the universe, begins a shift in perception and perspective, from a material sense of existence, to a metaphysical sense. Seeing the world as something other than matter, is a movement towards dissolving conceptualization.

For a while intentional manifesting may be fruitful, and fun. And there may be benefits in terms of more abundance, inventions and the arts. But does it bring fulfillment? Suppose what someone wished for turns out to be unwanted later on, would there be consequences? And does intentional manifesting have a deleterious or harmful affect on others or the planet? Since it is still coming from a dualistic sense of existence. For within dualism there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

Intentional manifesting could be likened to the analogy of dancing around the tiger, that Ramana used. There is the promise of some good that may come to a separate sense of self. This leads to a need for alignment with source (which appears separate from me), dancing around the tiger (reality), putting one's head in the mouth of the tiger (as they do in the circus acts). Eventually the day comes when they discover that the jaws have closed, and they are "caught in the tiger's mouth".

Unintentional manifesting on the other hand flows from source, Pure Awareness, not from source to a separate, illusory sense of self, but from source expressing itself. A good example is described by Tolle in regards to writing the book Power of Now. A vision came to him spontaneously with an image of a book. And he felt the pull to relocate to a suitable, inspirational environment, in order to nourish this manifestation, and find that which was helpful for the book's birth; namely a publisher and publicist that shared the same vision.

As long as intentional manifesting works and is enjoyable, then do what you feel drawn to do, it apparently has its place in the unfolding of Awareness. But the day will come when it will no longer work, and the illusory sense of self will begin to crumble, what Adya refers to as "achieving total failure".

How long will it take for the illusory sense of self to dissolve, and pure awareness to reveal itself as one's identity? who knows? It appears as a unique journey or unfolding for each individual expression. And in the absolute sense, time is irrelevant and non existent. In Oneness the first will be last, and the last will be first. There can be no first or last, in Awareness. There is only Pure Awareness, and it manifests itself infinitely, in unique forms and expressions.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6235
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Sighclone » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:15 pm

I guess someday maybe when "I" do something, like get a glass of water, my experience will be something like observing this body/mind get a glass of water. Today, it still feels like I am doing it. But the surprises or wakeup calls or little nudges come from Source when the faucet doesn't work and I call a plumber and he turns out to be a former student who sends me an appraisal assignment or gives me an idea for a late chapter in my novel.

If the sense of intention ends at enlightenment, that distinction would all make sense, james - thanks. I certainly experience some distance from certain encounters, but generally, with people, there is a deeper sense of intimacy, not distance.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Morgan_
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:05 am

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Morgan_ » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:56 am

Questions:

1) How is it different from manifesting from unconsciousness?

If manifesting means the realizing of truth or an expression of your essential nature then in one way you can't actually manifest from unconsciousness. Manifesting from unconsciousness is impossible. You may believe that you are manifesting but actually you are recreating your past in the present but it only exists for you, or another way of saying this is that it does not exist at all. Your creating a level of un-reality of isolation. The world of ego with its attempts at power or autonomy and its intoxication from fear and desire. Manifesting is in one way the unveiling of truth which simultaneously is the arising of the awareness of the un-reality of the false self or mind-made un-reality. In another sense manifesting is the extension of truth arising from reality and truth. Which is all there is or could be. Have you ever known false facts except for in relation to truth. In the very act of asking the questions in which you have asked you have called out to the aspect of yourself that knows the answers. If true communication occurs the separation of you and me dissapears and truth reveals itself as all there is. Conscious manifesting is the natural expression of life. It is life giving out of its nature not because it should, must or any other idea coming from the mind-made self.

2) Is the increase in synchronicity, or in ETs terms "life brings you what you need" actually a form of manifesting, i.e. is there a subtle level of willpower involved or not? When something just seems to happen as a coincidence, at some level we know it is not a coincidence, but is there a level at which we know "we" created it "on purpose?"

I think that the willpower that is present is the ego or false-self questioning its autonomy. But even this isn't true from a greater perspective. When your foot falls asleep is it "willing" to get the bodies attention? I would say its the sense of separateness or when the foot says "hey look at what I just willed" that is actually the cause of the foots falling asleep, but also in the end it can provide the foot with a solution for getting the bodies attention. If it regains connection with the body and then says look at what I just willed its beginning to fall back asleep. It is all just a story.

Can we will something with much more effectiveness than before awakening?

Yes and no we are much more ourselves awake and so we are able to be much more. When we place the possession or "I willed it" then we begin limiting ourselves and falling asleep.

4) Are events or objects which we label as "manifestations" just incidental ripples?

These are really great question it has really helped me wake-up. Thank you for asking them. This last question makes me think of what it is that we like to attach the label of manifestation to. Everything we experience is manifestation- that's amazing. How can we even say we had a bad day in the face of knowing that we're connected with and essentially are what life on this planet is. Its not the label manifestation that is the trouble maker its the false identity we derive from the label "I" manifested.

Sw A Devagni
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:33 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by Sw A Devagni » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:59 pm

Firstly, before I answer your questions, Andy, let me say your English is quite poor on this one (unusual for you).

1) Well, this depends on something called Right Intention, the second step on the eightfold path. There is a very good seminar on it at http://www.bigmind.org - click on Zen Eye and the seminar is called 'Intention'. Make sure you know what the Big Mind work is before doing it, though, and that you have done some already (preferably).

2) Good question - Genpo Roshi would say it like this - if you imagine a triangle, on one base of the triangle you have 'choice' (human choice). On the other base, you have karma (or what he calls the illusion of choice); at the Apex you have True Freedom, which is the freedom to resist your life or go with it, as both factors are involved - choice on a human level (you respond to situations) but also karma (the situations happen, whether you like it or not). So come from the Apex.

Not too sure about question 3.

4) They are ripples of I AMness, but not necessarily incidental re karma (see point 2).

Hope this helped.

Love,

Dev.

James
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by James » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:01 am

There are two ways to suffer,
one is not getting what you want,
the other is getting what you want.



We could add that there is a middle path of appreciating and enjoying everything in our experience, without attachment; it's all manifestation.


james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

User avatar
heidi
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by heidi » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:13 am

Yes, James. Allowing...
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave

lanroh
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:52 pm
Location: Kingman AZ

Re: Manifesting from Pure Awareness

Post by lanroh » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:53 pm

Hi James and Hiedi

Allowing, I have been looking at this the last few days. The notion that has been going through my head has been this. If all perceivables are consciousness, duality, division or fragmentation all being the same thing, then picking and choosing is the actual division taking place. I guess what I am trying to say and understand is, if all is consciousness then when there is picking and choosing it is an illusion that one part of consciousness is different in nature then the rest.

I am not sure but I think your point about allowing is this. If all consciousness is not allowed to be equal, no picking and choosing, suffering will be the outcome. In the end one can't control the stream of consciousness, it will unfold as it likes. Fragmentation, duality is like trying to walk up stream.

Post Reply