Rebelling the Babylon System

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Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:25 pm

Two manifested forms may be similar to an observer, their essence may be entirely different. For example, Hitler and Jesus are both in human forms, but what they are manifesting are entirely different.

Mind is intrinsically innocent. It can not detect essence. It only uses past experiences and forms to make judgment.

Communism, Socialism, Dictatorship, World Government may have similar manifested forms, but what essence they are manifesting can be entirely different.

Forms can be misleading.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:45 am

Very nice post, mistral.

This is what Marley meant when he sang "the biggest man you ever did see was just a baby". He was trying to empower the individual, to point out, who are these people, these leaders, kings and queens, to deny you your birth right? How are they different to you? Where do they get the authority to govern you?

Nobody in the natural state would WANT to govern and impose rules on others. The craziest, most deluded people naturally get to the top because they have to have that egoic drive, that competitiveness, effort and ambition. If you are in the business or political world and you don't have those qualities you won't get far. Even if you start off with good intentions sooner or later you'll be pulled into the system's way of thinking. This is why Eckhart walked away from a promising career as an intellectual. What did he need it for anymore?

One of the best things John Lennon ever said was: "Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it".

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:30 am

Very interesting post mistral.

Please clarify. When the wave (individual) realizes its part of the ocean (divinity), is can now " knowingly" function from divinity. I understand that waves can be diverse in their expression, but the wave was always an expression of the ocean was it not? And the wave has always had unique talents that it could not formerly express because it forgot it was an expression of the ocean (divine). But the forgetfulness was also an expression of the divine was it not?

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:31 pm

Sorry to jump in again, but I don't want to let this slip because I feel it's vitally important in understanding our true nature. It can't be emphasised enough how great and full of potential every one of you is, and showing the way the system suppresses that potential is one way of uncovering it. I don't care if you listen to me or not, so here are some more things others have said that you might take note of. This is not about convincing. You can easily find all this out for yourself. If you really listen to what these people are saying and examine it, see how it operates in your own life. If you do that honestly, I don't think you'll be able to turn away from it so easily.

Here are some quotes from UG Krishnmurti:

"You having been brainwashed all your life, can only think in terms of imitation."

"Nature is busy creating absolutely unique individuals, whereas culture has invented a single mould to which all must conform. It is grotesque...By using the models of Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna we have destroyed the possibility of nature throwing up unique individuals."


- (He uses religious examples but in today's society we can easily replace those with celebrities, world leaders or anyone else we think of as 'great'.)

"If you really want to learn something, school is the last place to go."

"To be an individual and to be yourself you don't have to do a thing. Culture demands that you should be something other than what you are. What a tremendous amount of energy — the will, the effort — we waste trying to become that! If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do? How simple it would be for every one of us to live in this world!"

"Society or culture or whatever you might want to call it, has created us all solely and wholly for the purpose of maintaining its continuity and status quo."


- (This is 'you'. The moment you were born and your parents gave you a name and it was recorded on the birth certificate you were theirs. 'You' are a product like any other product, a commodity to be used to maintain the society.)

From Papaji: "You are all in prison and you have heard about outside from your parents, priests, teachers and preachers. 'Come to us,' they say, 'and we will give you freedom. Come to me and I will give you rest.' That is the promise, but this is only another trap. Once you believe it, you are caught in the trap of wanting freedom."

J. Krishnamurti - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZU9IyDYzdg

Mooji - "Nobody Wants You To Be Free" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xTKhpty07I

Let me make it clear again. This is not about blame. It is about recognising/realising. I am simply putting this out for you to recognise it. Then it becomes empowering. As Mooji said, "you don't become a rebel", in the sense the mind wants to believe. You automatically become a 'rebel' when it is seen and recognised simply because you are no longer under control. That's what makes you a 'rebel' and dangerous to society, not because you have ideas of anarchy. UG used to get accused of being a CIA agent when he visited the Soviet Union and a KGB agent when he visited the U.S. because what he was saying was very dangerous to both democracy and communism. It is no secret the CIA had involvements behind the shooting of Bob Marley and it's interesting John Lennon was shot dead just as he was about to come out of the wilderness with a new album. These men were about PEACE - where did they promote anarchy and violence? True peace is very very dangerous to the structure of society. Not the 'peace' leaders are always going on about. That is a falsity. It is like in George Orwell's 1984... everything they say is in reverse. They talk about "peace processes" while inciting more wars.

This is not about fear but there is no doubt we are heading for some sort of critical point in time where it can go either way. I think in these times you are going to find many of us circulating this kind of information because it DEMANDS to be heard. Those in power are pushing all the time to take away more and more of our freedoms from under our noses. Yes, some who are still operating from mind will pass it out in a fearful way but that is not my reason for this. The only reason I put this out is that maybe someone reading will recognise something in it and begin to awaken to their true potential. I'm sorry if it seems full-on to you but I must say it. If it's too heavy for this forum and the moderators wish me to leave I will go. I will never stop talking about this though. I know with absolute certainty that I will talk about this stuff and encourage people to recognise what they actually are for the rest of my days in this body. Why do you think UG talked non-stop for 30yrs, why Eckhart gave up a promising career to do what he does, why David Icke gave up a lucrative career in tv? Why did Bob Marley write music with nothing else but this message? When this 'thing' touches you, you are never the same again and your only reason for being here is to speak your truth and communicate it to others.

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mistral
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by mistral » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:17 pm

Hey Lucy,

To respond to your question about ocean and wave. For me, this ‘ocean &wave’ analogy is a wonderful way to help us understand that we are part of Something Bigger….but, beyond that, I do not think it is ‘end all’ of This The Living Truth. Once we get that we are not separate or apart from our ‘Maker’ then we are willing to explore this New Identity, our Real Self…Understanding that we are part of Something Infinite and Eternal and Omnipresent and Supremely All Knowing, that is just the beginning as this New sense of Self helps us to let go the ‘old limited identity’ and Take up this New Selfhood and Live It…because we see, know, understand that our very Self Awareness is God’s Self Awareness, the One and Only Mind right here and now, always….always was and Always will be….then we are no longer afraid to Be Who We ARE, we are not afraid to explore of New Found Grace that can take our hand and walk us ‘through life’….When we begin to get glimmers that We are honest and truly, that we are one with This Living Truth and The Infinite Power of Divine Intelligence…well, then we want to start living it, putting it to the test, practicing standing In Our True Selfhood. By doing so, we grow wiser and stronger and we become more Who We Are, we become The Individual in a greater way, not less. We find ourselves being more Singular, Sharp, Clear, not less….we do not lose our self as most of this ‘non-duality’ stuff seems to imply…but, I think they only imply that because they want to leave the emptiness there so you can find your Own Real Self and not some ‘self’ they have dictated or described…do you see what I mean here?

In fact, I think it should be said now, the time has come to speak up; that we actually are on the search for Our Real Identity (yet one does have to let go ‘old limited sense of identity)…We become MORE not less, and dare I say you become Some-One with A Mind of Your Own. Truly you do. Somewhere I remember this sort of quote “Let that same Mind that was IN Christ Jesus be in you”….And with this Mind of Your Own, no one can dupe you or take away this genuine and true sovereignty; It is yours forever more. No one who still lives in the ‘old world view’ (the powers that be, government, leaders, groups, teachers, organizations, preachers) will tell you of True Self because ‘the darkness is very fearful of the Light, it loses it power….the ‘old man’ knows he will be out of business when we find out and Live the Living Truth ( in the same way our ‘old ego limited self resists the Truth for quite some time )

'Help' would come in the form of someone telling you that your are strong, singular, of right-mind, independent and uniquely individual The Light of Truth reveals the dishonesty going on here in the ‘old world’... If you will notice, all reformers do is make it clear to us that we are weak, incapable, and we all need to be changed and made better through conformity, subservieance and dumbing down. The favored method is to gang up with a large number of their own kind of thinkers (what they deem is best for all of us) then organize along political and military lines, displaying their might and power so that they can bag as many coverts as possible. And more assiduous is that they do not care about the convert on bit, they do this for sake of the prestige of the organization. Well, anyway, I should not go on here. This is getting too long. Suffice it to say, there is most certainly a war going now; it is between The Light of Truth that is very certainly beginning to crack through like the Dawn of a New Day...It is getting brighter, braking through now to reveal the New Dimension…However the darkness is pushing harder to win out...the darkness, being afraid of losing its dominion wants to keep the status quo, to keep its control and power. The tough gangsters resistance to the Glory of Truth is getting bigger and stronger. Darkness might win if let it...we have reached a crucial stage on World Scene.

So, the best thing we can do is Live the fullness of our Beings, provide the Truth and Light, inspiration, courage and be a good compass that points to The Highest Self we ARE whenever and wherever you can. Just notice that the ‘leaders’ are telling you how bad off you are, how difficult the world is, how treacherous life is, how bad we are in our polluting the Earth and how much we must change into ‘what they think’ is ‘good, better and best’. All based in the lie; scarcity, poverty, fear, limitations, guilt, banishment, disgrace, wrongfulness, unworthiness (like a very dysfunctional, rotten parent does to correct i.e. destroy a Perfectly Wonderful Child of his)

The dominate structures want to entangle, confuse, limit, and crush your individuality. The vital factor is the Individual. Like fractals, we realize that the individual unit is complete within Itself, it is the exact copy, replica of Godhead, the One Infinite Divine All. As was said thousands of years ago, we are made in image and likeness of God and it is true to the highest Selfhood, realizing our Birthright we then flow along harmoniously rhythmically and contributively; with all the others. The old ‘flat world view’ will not see their own True Individual Beauty, Wholeness, Intelligence, and they will not let you do so either. Trust your self. In Recognizing The Grace that is the Very Essence of our Being, we find Life to be an absolutely remarkable journey and adventure of Self-discovery. Understanding our ‘oneness’ with the Divine is not the end of the Joy and Wonder, it is just the beginning.

If you like analogy to help you understand, go see this excellent description that will allow you to experience further vision of your True Selfhood.

http://www.williamsamuel.com/10-12-07-C ... 0Being.htm

Sorry I got so long here, but, like Sevenworlds, I feel like this is such an important part of our Awakening.

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:27 pm

Mistral,

Thank you for taking the time to explain. It seems to me what you are describing is embodiment: Once you wake-up to the truth, how does one live it. A self realized individual doesn't just sit back and do nothing, he/she acts in the world, but now the actions are inspired by Consciousness (Godhead) instead of the limited self.
mistral wrote: By doing so, we grow wiser and stronger and we become more Who We Are, we become The Individual in a greater way, not less. We find ourselves being more Singular, Sharp, Clear, not less….we do not lose our self as most of this ‘non-duality’ stuff seems to imply…but, I think they only imply that because they want to leave the emptiness there so you can find your Own Real Self and not some ‘self’ they have dictated or described…do you see what I mean here?
I interpret the Emptiness of non duality as the Source. The Real you, Oneness. But it is not just Emptiness it is also Fullness. (Form or Appearance) When your true nature is realized, it can then flow through the body/mind "purely" whereas before there was a distortion caused by the ego.

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mistral
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by mistral » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:09 pm

Yes, I think you are saying it very well, It is both the Seeing of our ONEness which might be called 'emptiness' because It is an Ineffable Unknowable, Unspeakable,Sacred Mytery of Allness, and yet It is also the Infinitude of Everything that is or was or will be and It includes many dimensions (science is theorizing at least 11 more dimensions right here going on right now)...Wherein every grain of sand, and every snowflake is singularly perfect and unique and different from every other snowflake that has ever fallen from the sky for over millions of years and each grain of sand on every sand dune and desert from here to eternity; just envision all the sand of the Gobi, Sahara, and Arizona and that hardly even touches the diversity and Wonder and Beauty of Love.....That is remarkable...Individual, alone, singular, Unto Your Self...not like any other.....Just you and you alone.

No matter where you go what you do, you will always take your self with you...Awareness is Your Identity and you can't leave home without it... Awareness is God's and God's alone...and you can't leave home without.

So, I do not know what you or any one else will do when you find and Live the Truth of your Real Self....But whatever it will be, it will be very Good...

You are the light of the world.
A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden.
Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.

Beyond the prison like confines of the finite self we begin our True Adventures and each adventure brings us closer and closer to our Larger Self...Just do this; Know Your Self, BE Your Self, and Share Your Self....and you are doing that here, in so many miraculous ways...

Mistral

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Very well said Mistral :)

I think the word individual actually comes from indivisable, but has been incorrectly used to express the limited self.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:51 am

mistral wrote:When we begin to get glimmers that We are honest and truly, that we are one with This Living Truth and The Infinite Power of Divine Intelligence…well, then we want to start living it, putting it to the test, practicing standing In Our True Selfhood. By doing so, we grow wiser and stronger and we become more Who We Are, we become The Individual in a greater way, not less. We find ourselves being more Singular, Sharp, Clear, not less….we do not lose our self as most of this ‘non-duality’ stuff seems to imply…but, I think they only imply that because they want to leave the emptiness there so you can find your Own Real Self and not some ‘self’ they have dictated or described…do you see what I mean here?
Yes, and when you live it, you just somehow KNOW what you have to do, what you have to say and there is total conviction behind it. The whole world could say you are mad and it wouldn't make any difference. You may not know WHY you are doing something or saying something because it is always about Now. If you had reasons and logic behind your words and actions, you would be in past or future. Sometimes you get a glimpse of why, like a 'vision' or feeling that you have to do this to get that outcome but often there is just a certainty about what you're doing Now and the details are irrelevant. That's where the trust comes in. For the first time in your life you are completely your own authority without anyone else to lean on. Everyone else with minds will want to tell you you're wrong and many of your actions will seem erratic and non-sensical to them. The more you learn to trust, you start to see the synchronicities appear, and how things work out in the end.

There was a girl on the DI forum recently who put out a question there. I responded and it went on and on and got more heated. I didn't know why, but I had to keep responding to her and eventually she went a bit crazy, throwing personal insults at me because her ego was rattled. Even at that point I knew somehow it was fine. I just left it and a few days later she came back, apologised and said her head was much clearer now. I can't say it was because of me, but the fact remains she felt better for it, and something in that sequence of events must have triggered it. All I know is I 'played my part'. Sometimes you get to play the 'good guy' and sometimes the 'bad guy'. To you it no longer matters because you know your actions are always right action.

The danger in saying all of this is the mind can obviously trick itself into believing it is already operating this way. Many do-gooders are in this mode. All these people who are doing charitable things and trying to save the planet or whatever are often like that. They are causing more harm than good but they can't see it. With this spiritual/conspiracy stuff it's a big danger because you can hear all of this and immediately want to run out there and shout it to the world. There can be a feeling of "I know and they don't". It's taken 2 yrs for me to get to this point. Something profound happened back then and at that point I could have been off but it never felt quite right. It had to stabilise itself. Even now the body is still adjusting itself to this new energy but that isn't really of concern anymore.

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:27 am

sevenworlds wrote:You may not know WHY you are doing something or saying something because it is always about Now. If you had reasons and logic behind your words and actions, you would be in past or future.
I find this inconsistent with the whole Babylon system you have been talking about. How is the Babylon system and the David Icke's reptillian bloodlines part of your present moment? The present moment is whatever is happening. Unless you have a reptillian sitting next to you while you are typing on the computer than it is not what is Real. A thought about it is a concept and I think we would both agree a concept is never the real. I am not trying to be funny or disrespectful, I'm just trying to understand.

Juniper22
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Juniper22 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:46 am

sevenworlds wrote:
Here are some quotes from UG Krishnmurti:

"You having been brainwashed all your life, can only think in terms of imitation."

"Nature is busy creating absolutely unique individuals, whereas culture has invented a single mould to which all must conform. It is grotesque...By using the models of Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna we have destroyed the possibility of nature throwing up unique individuals."


- (He uses religious examples but in today's society we can easily replace those with celebrities, world leaders or anyone else we think of as 'great'.)

"If you really want to learn something, school is the last place to go."

"To be an individual and to be yourself you don't have to do a thing. Culture demands that you should be something other than what you are. What a tremendous amount of energy — the will, the effort — we waste trying to become that! If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do? How simple it would be for every one of us to live in this world!"

"Society or culture or whatever you might want to call it, has created us all solely and wholly for the purpose of maintaining its continuity and status quo."


- (This is 'you'. The moment you were born and your parents gave you a name and it was recorded on the birth certificate you were theirs. 'You' are a product like any other product, a commodity to be used to maintain the society.)

From Papaji: "You are all in prison and you have heard about outside from your parents, priests, teachers and preachers. 'Come to us,' they say, 'and we will give you freedom. Come to me and I will give you rest.' That is the promise, but this is only another trap. Once you believe it, you are caught in the trap of wanting freedom."
Some very good quotes Sevenworlds. I particularly like the one by Papaji about prison, one of my favourite films is Paul Newmans "Cool Hand Luke." It`s about an imprisoned man who refuses to conform to prison life and tries to escape at every opportunity.
It is no secret the CIA had involvements behind the shooting of Bob Marley and it's interesting John Lennon was shot dead just as he was about to come out of the wilderness with a new album.


Regarding Lennons death, a book I`d advise is "The Murder of John Lennon" by Fenton Bresler. Bresler was a distinguished British barrister and criminologist who investigated Mark Chapman and the events surrounding the shooting in detail.
"Don`t think of goodness; don`t think of evil; at this instant, what is your original face?" Hui Neng

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:26 pm

lucy wrote:I find this inconsistent with the whole Babylon system you have been talking about. How is the Babylon system and the David Icke's reptillian bloodlines part of your present moment? The present moment is whatever is happening. Unless you have a reptillian sitting next to you while you are typing on the computer than it is not what is Real. A thought about it is a concept and I think we would both agree a concept is never the real. I am not trying to be funny or disrespectful, I'm just trying to understand.
This is the trap that Eckhart and others who bang on about "the present moment" can inadvertently set-up for you. People get attached to that as if it's something that can be lost or you can fall out of. At the beginning, yes, a certain alertness is needed, but once 'you' get swallowed up by the present moment what else is there? It becomes effortless. That means talking about past, future, anything is free to happen because 'you' are not there. Past, present, future... they all become one in the same. If you had to be wary of mentioning certain things it wouldn't be true freedom.

Lucy, remember, I didn't bring David Icke into focus on this topic. I only mentioned his name in passing and it was only because James wanted to know more that it went further. I have consistently said here I'm not interested in David Icke anymore. In fact, that video I posted was the first time I'd watched him for a while and coincidently I came across it a day or so after James' posts here and felt it would satisfy the curiosity of those who were interested. The reptilian thing is irrelevant to what I was initially getting at with the Babylon System. Having said that, there is no telling what will be the trigger to someone awakening. I can't deny watching Icke talk about the manipulation a few years back set things up for me.

To emphasise further what I'm trying to get at... Towards the end of 2006, I went to see the Borat film. At this point I knew absolutely nothing about conspiracies or spirituality. I was totally into music. During the Borat film, there was a scene with a joke about "shape-shifting Jews". I didn't get it because I hadn't heard that term before. Don't ask me why, but for some reason out of curiosity, when I went home I typed that phrase into google and the first name I came across was David Icke. I'd heard of him before because I remember him being ridiculed in the press when I was young but I knew nothing else about him. Anyway, from that, I ended up watching one of his 6 hr talks, becoming both engaged and amused by it all. For the next 3 months I dived headlong into all this conspiracy stuff. I can't explain it but something had been triggered and I wanted to know more and more. The conspiracy side of things led into the spiritual and it was while on a conspiracy site downloading videos that I saw a talk by Eckhart Tolle. Again, out of a curiosity I cannot explain, I downloaded it and within 20 mins of watching something happened to me.

Life itself is a joker and it sets up the most absurd scenarios for us. Our minds want things rationally and logically, in a timeline. That is how we want and think awakening can happen. You can't progress to it or plan for it. What I realise now is some sort of intelligence or drive has to be there pushing you to that point but you won't know it until after. Certain things I done like deciding to leave school on a whim at 16 and get a job instead of going to university because I was disillusioned with the education system even then. I didn't understand it but I made a lot of unusual choices like that without knowing why. So although I didn't intend this to be about Icke and reptilians, who am I to stand in the way of how this topic has flowed? Someone out there might be getting something from it. I don't know if that answers your question?
Last edited by sevenworlds on Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:02 pm

Actually, this ties back in with the rebelliousness I was originally getting at.

I grew up in a working-class environment and none of my family had went to university so when I managed to get good exam results at school, my family were pleased at the prospect of me going to uni. I never made it clear how much I detested school, I just got on with it, but then decided to walk away while all my friends stayed on for uni. I disappointed and perplexed a few people at that time, but that is the kind of rebellion I'm talking about. Eckhart was a rebel in that sense, because he too also rejected school. A few years later I did the same thing again when I left work, went backpacking and then came home and decided I wanted to do music full-time. My parents were supportive but many others around me didn't get it and thought I'd "went off the rails". So many times I was asked "when are you going to get a job?". No matter how many times I tried to explain they robotically threw that question at me. I'd say "if I was studying some subject at uni you wouldn't be complaining so what's the difference? I'm teaching myself music."

In the end I walked away from all my friends and many of my family. I just felt happier getting on with my life with only a few people around me and without all the hassle from people who didn't understand. I didn't realise it at the time but all the walking away was a form of rejecting or rebelling certain value systems. It was only after my mind came to halt and then when I started to read the stories of those like UG Krishnamurti that it all made 'sense'. He was doing the same thing in a different environment, walking away from everything everyone around him tried to impose on him. It's not the stereotypical abandonment thing you hear with spiritual seekers. It's, as I said, a certain inner drive that has to be there from a young age and then you have to have the courage to often do the opposite of what those around you are doing. Not because you are trying to be different but because you are listening to something within that is steering you. It's not necessary to physically walk away but that may happen. It's a rebellion against the values society imposes on us.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by kiki » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:24 pm

It's, as I said, a certain inner drive that has to be there from a young age and then you have to have the courage to often do the opposite of what those around you are doing. Not because you are trying to be different but because you are listening to something within that is steering you.
I know what you mean. I walked a different path than everyone else in my family or any of my friends. I couldn't really explain it to them, or even to myself, but I couldn't just do what family, friends, and society expected. The herd mentality was something I was loathe to follow. Something was driving me that wouldn't let me do that.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by James » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:40 pm

Generally speaking, the term that I have not heard mentioned in this thread is Magic Thinking. It is very common for those that are new to awakening or spirituality, to entertain magic thinking, and mistake it for a spiritual impulse. You can see it in New Age thought, in the form of the conspiracies and other other prophetic visions, or believing that every thing is synchronistic, (saying to oneself "this is what was supposed to happen"). In Islam there are fanatics that think blowing others up and themselves is a spiritual impulse. In Christianity there are those that kill abortion doctors, and think they are doing God's will. These are glaring examples, but for many on the path to awakening there can be many more subtle instances of magic thinking, or dreaming, mistaken for reality or the divine. Unconscious patterns can make us act in impulsive ways. If you ask most people why they do what they do, they would likely answer "I don't know", or that "it just seems like the right thing to do".


There are a few rare individuals in history that appear to have spontaneous abiding awakenings. We hear about them a lot because they are often the ones that go on to teach, or write books, so they are legendary. People like Ramana and Tolle. But it seems even these rare individuals went through periods of integration and maturation after awakening, which lasted years; until they understood and could live more in alignment with truth. Papaji had awakening experiences early on, but then for many years he chased mystical experiences and tried to hold onto visions of Krishna; until he met Ramana and he told him to let go of that.

Furthermore "fully realized", is conceptual, as that implies that it is something finite. If we use other peoples' awakening as a model or gage, it could be a stumbling block, believing that our own awakening must be instantaneous and abiding also. That can be an expectation or should thoughts, that can lead to magic thinking, as we begin to interpret all of our impulses or energy as awakening, when in fact they can still be part of the dream, or somewhat unconscious. Human thinking likes instant results, and often grasps for what it does not have.

Yes any moment can be a spontaneous awakening, as we accept the truth of being that is omnipresent, and rest in it. Sufficient is the now unto itself. To be awake now, is not to have certainty that one won't dream again tomorrow. Because none of us know what will happen in the future. Dreaming is not a bad thing. Perhaps we were meant to dream, so we could know what it means to be awake. In any case it is what happens, so we can accept it as it is. When spiritual teachers use a word like "rebel", I don't see it as suggesting resistance, but rather as a pointer, as in come out and be separate from the dream. Remember that which we resist will persist. Non resistance and acceptance of what is dissolves the dream.

james
Last edited by James on Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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