Rebelling the Babylon System

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sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:34 pm

I hear what you are saying James, but I really don't know what I'm left with. I don't walk around telling myself I'm awakened, self-realised, enlightened, have no ego or any of those terms. I have to use those terms on here otherwise it is difficult to communicate with others but in truth I really dislike using them. None of them seem adequate and they all have so much history invested in them.

All I know is I'm no longer troubled by thoughts or by the world, and no, it wasn't an overnight thing. Yes, the moment the mind 'stops' is instantaneous. In fact, it is out of time, so nothing can accurately be said of that. I liken it to a train shuddering to a halt. The brakes are hit but the momentum slows it down gradually. Thought has had years and years of momentum, it doesn't go lightly.

I don't know how or why this happened to me. I was very unhappy for about 10 years leading up to it. Like Eckhart, suicide would cross my mind from time to time. I was full of anger and frustration about a lot of things but I generally kept it inside. I remember at one time saying "I wish I could just wipe myself out and start again at year zero" :lol: I realise now what I was actually wishing for. That's why the body is still recalibrating itself. Every single day for the last 2 years there have been aches and pains, strange yogic postures, all sorts. It's because thinking caused so much tension and now it is being undone. UG calls it an "atomic explosion" within the body and I'd go along with that. It's not something to be played around with. There's no way you'd want this.

When I say the search is finished, I mean I don't have any questions about life left. I don't mean I'm now in a static state. Everyday I get up it is new. Some days are intensely blissful, some days lots of energy, new insights and sensations are always happening. Yet I am where I am and there is no fight left anymore. It's all allowed to happen as it happens. Maybe it will go even deeper, I don't know, and I don't mind, because the feeling of there being somewhere else to go, somewhere to get to has disappeared.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Sighclone » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:39 pm

Thanks, james - good points re magical thinking. I believe that one important test of awakening is freedom from the tyranny of the thought-stream. Eckhart has said that most of us do not have an "off switch." My understanding of enlightened individuals includes their freedom from the tireless chain of constant thinking.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:20 pm

Sevenworlds,

Thank you for sharing your story here. I hear what you are saying about some spirtual teachers, but I think most of these teachers have good intentions and are not knowiingly trying to deceive us. I think most of them are talking about awakening from an unawakened place. Acceptance is one of things that causes the most confusion from where I stand. Many of these teachers talk about acceptance, and I understand how it is important to accept things as they are, and also to take action to change things when need be. What I have the most trouble understanding is how does one know when to take action and when to accept things as they are. I am not talking about obvious situations such as danger or abuse, but the more subtle ones concerning career etc. You and Mistral are right in pointing out that we have become products of our belief systems imposed on us from others. The problem is that these beliefs are so tightly woven in with our natural functioning desires that it is hard to discern what desire is moving us in the direction of our awakening or what is leading us down the path of mind. ( I guess they will both eventually lead to the place you never left) As you have described, and as other "Awakened" people have pointed out, the inclinations that push us towards awakening often do not come as thoughts but more as "energetic pushes" that at the time may not make sense. It takes a lot of courage to stand alone, and many of us have responsibilites that we cannot just walk away from to follow our desires, so we accept things. Many spirtual teachers espouse that if a change needs to occur, it will happen, you don't have to take the action e.g. you do not have the courage to leave a job that you know is not in alignment with your desires and you end up getting fired. If you can't make the decision yourself, life eventually makes it for you, but until that happens you suffer unneccessarily...I enjoyed watching the J K video that you linked in your post. I had to smile when the little boy said "We can follow our desire to paint and also do what our parents are telling us (to become engineers) and Jk smiled and responed "Then you will never do any one of them well".

I don't know, if it is Grace that gives one the courage to follow their natural desires or is it the other way around: Once you follow your natural desires, Grace comes. Perhaps once we are able to discern our natural desires from our cultural beliefs (follow our inner GPS) the thought stream dies down on its own.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by James » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:03 pm

Sevenworlds wrote:
Everyday I get up it is new. Some days are intensely blissful, some days lots of energy, new insights and sensations are always happening. Yet I am where I am and there is no fight left anymore. It's all allowed to happen as it happens. Maybe it will go even deeper, I don't know, and I don't mind, because the feeling of there being somewhere else to go, somewhere to get to has disappeared
.

Nicely said :D

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:20 am

Yes Lucy, I completely understand. This is the trap we live in collectively as a society and this is essentially what I was aiming to highlight in this topic. I don't have the answers but by pointing out some of the ways society compromises us, it may spark something in someone as it did for me. There really is no way out. Parents are forced to send their kids to school, where they get 'brainwashed' to serve the system, and so on it goes. How do we break that cycle?

As you say, anything you attempt to do - take action or not - is still a decision. That 'grace' as you call it, has to happen first, otherwise you are just chasing your tail. The 'grace' part is a mystery, it's like someone getting struck by lightning. It's trying to express in all of us all the time but we are constantly shutting it down because of our duties to society. It's not that you have to abandon family and career and all these things but that drive has to be above all of those things, so that if need be, you will follow through. It seems most people are not prepared to do that until they have suffered greatly. That's why suffering always comes up with this. You don't need to suffer but the plain, blunt truth is most people will not truly listen to their own inner voice until they have. This is why UG often used the question "what do you want?". If you want something else more than this - family, career, money - follow it through with all your heart and you will burn out the desire quicker. I had this conflict over 10yrs of being shy, introverted, not interested in fame yet wanting to be nothing else but a musician. I basically wore myself out with that conflict.
lucy wrote:I don't know, if it is Grace that gives one the courage to follow their natural desires or is it the other way around: Once you follow your natural desires, Grace comes. Perhaps once we are able to discern our natural desires from our cultural beliefs (follow our inner GPS) the thought stream dies down on its own.
Probably a bit of both. That's what all the teachers are struggling with. Some tell you to try and it will come, some tell you there's nothing you can do. The whole thing is a mystery.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Onceler » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Let me add a different perspective, that of a middle-aged man. I was all about rebellion at your age 7worlds, and tried on many personas and experiences to expand myself (not to say I know exactly what you are going through, nor that I had your same experience, certainly not). It seems you are looking for anchors, Marley, Lennon, UGK, places that we all need to identify ourselves--in order to lose ourselves. Also, I am assuming you don't have children. Before kids I was self-indulgent and a mess! I had the "luxury" of being whatever I wanted. Children are the great teachers and constrain our options, thank God! I got over myself when I had kids. They pulled me out of myself and did not allow me to ponder endless options.

From my perspective, the problem is choices, or rather perceived choices. As first world societies, we are under the illusion or notion that we have endless choices and this causes endless suffering. I work with children and have seen over and over again that children want structure. When they feel they can act however they want, say whatever they want, they are very unhappy and "loose". They need this structure in order to unleash their creativity and joy. There is an interplay between limitation and freedom. When we all feel we can do whatever and be whatever, it is terrifying, exhilerating, and false.

In happiness research and studies, it is found that people in those areas of the world where there is relatively stable governmental and economic structure, but not unlimited options, are the happiest. (People report the greatest happiness in Mexico). In poorer countries (with very limited options) the level of happiness decreases when the internet and television are introduced (perceived options).

Healthy aging is a reduction of choices, or a more realistic assessment of options. As I age, I value limited choices, those things that pull me back to what is at hand. I believe (rely on) less and less in choices. The more my "structure" becomes the basics of life; the natural world (my garden), family, friends, basic food, exercise, I am happier or more content.

The extreme form of choice limitation is asceticism and, of course, simply limiting choices is not the direct route to clarity, but a by-product. However, deep immersion in the present is also a choice limitation, but also a simultaneous expansion into the unlimited....and there is the paradox.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:59 pm

What I hear in that post Onceler, is a lot of concern with age. What is age? Another trap the system pulls us into. I am trying to push boundaries, encourage you all to see outside the boxes you're caging yourself in, but the irony is, you keep coming back and trying to fit me and my statements into those very boxes I'm aiming to get you out of. You are afraid to step out of them and so to make yourself feel better about that you try to limit me in them. :)

First of all, I'm not "all about rebellion" as you put it Onceler. Not the rebellion you are thinking of. It has nothing to do with my age. This is how crafty the mind is. When I make statements off my own back, I'm accused of arrogance or something similar and so I bring in other figures for your sake, because you might listen to them more than you listen to me. Then it gets turned into me looking for anchors. Ahhhh, where to go from here?! :lol:

You're right, I don't have children and nor do I have any desire to. Once upon a time I may have considered it but what for now? Why would I want to bring another into this mad world and have to compromise it's sanity? I'm not saying anything against those who have children. I am lucky. If I'd had kids before this happened to me I'd have had to make the best of it. What reason would there be now? If it happens to be part of my destiny I'll accept.

Everything else you say there regarding age just seems like nonsense to me. All this defining our behaviour by our age group and talk of healthy aging. If it makes you happy I am pleased for you and there's nothing wrong with it but all that stuff never comes into my mind. As I've said before, I'm not a part of society anymore. Of course I play by and accept the rules imposed on me by society but I can't be manipulated by it. I don't see any reason why I should feel any different in 30 years time (provided I live that long) than I do now. Where I am is outside of age and yes, the body may become incapable of doing certain things but my 'attitude', as you see it, is actually my real nature. Society and growing old cannot touch that now.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by mistral » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:24 pm

Oh God, this is much too long, and it took me all morning to write.....Geesh! But, here goes anyway:

Infinite Light, Immutable All, Eternal Presence, Omniscient Being is never beholden to time, age, to society, to governments, to kings, to labels of any kind...This Divine Living Awareness is not possessed and the Marvel is that It is YOU; This Eternal One is your True Self. You are the world. You Are This Unbound Awareness. Therefore you, your Real Self, is not subservient to the time-space-matter images within It-Your-Self. Life (you) is Being the Awareness Aware right now, Awareness Aware of Itself. You, Your Self, You Are The World. There is No other one here, no one else here. All images are within You and You are One with The Divine and Only Life Here, which is Godhead, Ineffable Source All.

Life is subjective, but includes the objective sense of things, like a dream, we are ‘everything in the dream’ but we still ‘feel’ the differences of ‘this from that’; we know who we are in the dream, and who and what we are not…That is the Beauty of This Divine Intelligence I Am (you are); It is the Ultimate Intelligence Knowing All I Am.

The lesser view says we are ‘daddy’ or ‘still growing up' or ‘the first semi-black U.S. president,’…whatever…but, it is still the lesser version of self, the limited view…But, remember, the lesser view is included in the Greater View….not to be gotten rid of.,,,It serves its purpose well also. The scene, the images, they are included but they are not 'who you are'…they are Not Your Fullest Version of Your Self; the Expanded Selfhood Found…The Real Identity. Remember the holographic universe stuff?....The Unseen Zero Point Light that is ‘faster than light’ is the Essence, Godhead, Information Informing the world as everything ‘we see’ we ‘experience’ as Awareness….As we say time and again, but never too many times….“There is Only One” Only One Awareness Here, right now, Infinite Intelligence being All That I Am.

What our Dear Sevenworlds is saying, if I may put it into my own understanding, is that we have been ‘brain washed’ to believe that we are separate little beings with minds of our own, living inside a bag of skin and somehow we are able to peer out from the little slits in our eyes, and some will we grow up and die and some will die young. We buy this, and then we believe we have to do things the way we are set up to believe in. It is all a sham…limited life in a body is not the Totality of ‘who you are’. Any 'wake up' call is to tell us not that we ‘dream’ but that we are ‘sorely’ mistaken about ‘who we are’....We ARE So much MORE and We should be Living It Now.

When we begin to Live from out our True Self from the Expanded View and when we have found our True Identity then we do become rebels…if rebels are those who run around clanging bells and alarms to let others in on The Truth….and I think they are. It is Time to Take Hold of our True Self and Be It and in doing so, I get the intuitive sense that we will all come out of hiding to ‘save the world’ from imminent danger of being trapped in the lie for another two thousand years…or until things get so bad we are shaken from our stupor by the pain and darkness sorry and struggle and suffering we have accepted as our ‘lot in life’.

God knows we are so much better than this, the Kingdom is Ours Now. Yes, indeed, God spreads a feast before us and we crawl under the table eat the crumbs with the dogs.

The non-dual ‘system’ and its lingo can be, and often is, just as ‘entrapping’ as the dualistic paradigm, and the old time religions. There is no dream and dreamer, there is no ‘waking up’ in the sense of ‘we sleep’…It is more like an “aha, oh yes now I see” kind of ‘wake up’…it is that we are living a basic mistake. The foundation is sand and it slipping and everyone is rushing in to shore up the sand pile again, get the sand pile firmer and stronger…The Fact is not shifting or slipping, The Truth cannot slide from anywhere, It is All…. Our Life is the very Foundation that is built upon Something Uncaused, Immutable, Unknowable, Untouchable by ‘human hands’…It is Eternal, Forever, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and no man loosens Its Foundation. We are witnessing the insanity to retain the ‘false idols’ as if ‘a lie’ is so important to uphold. It seems like we are witnessing an insane rush to keep the curtain from falling, so no one finds out the Truth.

We have A True Foundation and It is Within Us and It is All That You Are, It is very Life and Light of Who You Are.

The rebels are out to tell others that the concepts of ‘who we are’ are all wrong…..sort of like those who said 'the earth is not flat' or when they stuck poor Galilao in prison for sharing the truth that the 'earth is orbiting the sun' or that we have accepted hook-line-and sinker that matter-time is an objective reality and the only reality (science is finding many more dimensions are here it is also coming to know that life is made of something more like pure subjective consciousness) . We have been working off the wrong the ‘principle’ of Identity...and Identity is whole thing… We start with 2+2=5 and wonder why nothing works out ‘right’.

The right answers are based on the Right Identity....This 'wrong beginning, mistaken foundational belief in 'who we are' is where the whole rest of the 'game' goes awry. We do not literally 'wake from a dream' we just realize that we have been working with the wrong Identity…The ‘awakening’ is like when we were kids in school learning the multiplication tables…for a long time we went outside to books and teachers but then when the tables are learned it is an inside job, a very personal and intimate action within…and you know when this happens… The heart knows and says, Oh yes, Now I understand…..It is pure and real and personal and yours alone…..Well, its like that.

We should and must 'rebel' We should be shouting out that "the king has no clothes on"....You remember the story; The King had his official tailor make him a special outfit for the big parade...the tailor was a crook, he made the king nothing, and dressed the king in nothing...and he then convinced the king he was wearing something very extraordinary and beautiful….The king was naked to his britches....The King put on his magical cloths and strode out to parade his New Outfit to the towns folks....no one said a word, all were silent, all were frightened to offend the king, to say something that they too were confused by, what if they were not right, what if his outfit was really magical, who to trust? Who to admit they saw no clothes on the king, who could or would trust their own eyes.....But, one little boy, one unconditioned, unafraid, innocent and pure enough to be trusting-in-his-own-eyes… That little boy shouted out "The King has no cloths!" Well that did it, the rest of towns folks all realized they were right all along, he gave them their own Authority back....that is Sevenworlds, he is finding The Little Boy....those who find that find The True Messiah Within, The Real One, The Light Divine, The Omniscient One and Live It, they are the rebels among us. They speak the truth and surprise, surprise they tend to shy away from the words used in the 'non-duality circles’ as that restricted jargon is also too confining….It is breakaway time. It is time to find The Real Self and Live It....then watch and see what happens..

Mistral

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by mistral » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:30 pm

It used to be the church that was duping the folks for power....now, as if going back to Roman days, it comes full circle again...Now it is the government, the rulers that are the gangsters and thugs. Investigate. Government is now in the business of selling us 'equality' and it comes to us packaged in the name of progressive socialism and communism. Be Aware of this. Equality, Liberty and Freedom are Who you are Already...That is yours already...you are the world. And no man has the right to take those from you, they are your God Given Birthright....no one has the authority to take from you in order to make someone else 'more equal' "Whoever thinks he can lead a single soul to Light has already condemned his world. But whoever sees Light as all, therefore no one guilty of darkness, guides the ten thousand galaxies on their course." (Lao Tse)

....This scam we are seeing now 'out there' is all happening under the guise of 'goodness, change for the better, improving our world'....' when in fact it is a grand and bigger perpetuation of the old-ego-desire for power to remain in the controlling dictatorships which are now being foisted upon the those who are can be duped as the solution to 'our problems' calling it the charming little euphemism "one world government' or "transnationalism"....oh, please. Do not buy it. It sounds like and enlightened outcome of 'oneness' but it is NOT. It is not in the words, it is in actual actions you see ...the taking of your freedom, your idividuality and tryng to cage, capture, restrict that marvelous 'mind of your own'. The Omnipresent All Inclusive Light, The Genuine Mind of God is who you are and This OneThat You Are cannot be fooled nor taken from you...Stand in Light and Be It. And This Light will know what to do about these money changers and charlatans that are trying like used car salesmen to take your Divine Heritage, God Given Rights, Life, Individuality, Liberty and Freedom from you.

"In the world, resistance to Truth is individual, then group wide, then nation wide, then worldwide. Objectively, the groups will be shattered and shaken as the individual has been -- then the nation, then the world. One does not have to be shaken if he moves ON with God--but he will be destroyed if he doesn't.

These words do not sound very metaphysical (absolute non-dualistic), but why do they have to? The Truth isn't bound to meet human expectations. God is still a mystery to me, but the Self-I-Am, made in the perfect IMAGE of God, grows clearer every day -- and those who heed these words will find what I have found. We become like the fountains we drink from. Religionists and metaphysicians drink from many fountains and have become a dilute nothing. There is a single Fountainhead, God, for whom Jesus speaks..." (William Samuel)


Catherine of Sienna, one day after a period of introspective prayer and grand enlightenment suddenly she arose and said, "My me is God.... Nor do I see any other me but my God himself."

“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to every one in the house. In the same way let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.”

"Show me a true vision of heaven and I'll show you a
descent into hell wherein that vision was tried, tested and found faithful."

But Truth is not a lifting up to the Light at all. It is much more a rapid stripping away of the mortal shell, leaving the Real exposed. It is an uncovering of the Light of Identity which has been here as 'us' all the while. It is the return of sensitivity in all its aspects. It is the CHILD uncovered again, stripped of all intellectual veneers. its worldly vestures ripped away. Without doubt this work appears to uncover the Child we are and we stand naked, exposed, defenseless, hypersensitive, our perception extremely acute again."


Mistral

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:41 pm

Mistral -

The facts that I agree with 99.99% of what you say and enjoy your style of writing do not keep me from warning you about political comments...I'm not going to any more than that - some other moderator may respond more forcefully. May I remind you of one of the guidelines:

"We are very sensitive to avoiding political aguments here. Although an occasional post with a political comment may be permitted to remain, most will be deleted. Because mention of a political policy or a specific political entity or politician might be acceptable in context, we have not created a formal rule. But this is a firm guideline.

Arguments begin with attachments to "positions." Politics is full of that - this forum has a different objective."


Thanks, Mistral...

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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mistral
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by mistral » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:56 pm

Thanks Andy, I did get a bit wild there....sorry....and thanks for allowing me to post.... and for letting this 'one go'....I shall stick to the guide lines....and I am glad you like some of my stuff.... and Yes, I do understand totally....

In appreciation for your excellent website, Love, Mistral

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Onceler » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:00 am

7worlds, you are absolutely right! So was I at your age!

I am still right, but not so much.

Once

P.S. I would love to get out of my box, but, and I know you appreciate honesty, you're not making it happen....so I accept the box....it's actually a lovely box.
Be present, be pleasant.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:50 am

Mistral, its a pleasure to read your posts.

Onceler, only you can get out of your self-created boxes.

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