Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

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lucy
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Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by lucy » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:18 am

I don't mean this as a criticism of this site at all. I am very thankful to Eric and Heidi for providing us an opportunity to discuss ET and his teachings. I must say though, as far as awakening goes, I wonder how useful this site is. There are a lot of good resources provided here, but outside of that, I wonder if all this mind activity that is generated here takes on further into the mind and hence further away from the truth.

randomguy
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by randomguy » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:31 am

Nice question. The only generated mind activity that would be of concern is my own. Reading this forum is not so much a portal to present awareness as would be listening to PON or Stillness Speaks. If that's a river downward, this forum is more like a mildly turbulent eddy in the river. It assists in inquiry. It's up to me to feel which way is the river flows and that doesn't seem so tough.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

James
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by James » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:38 am

That's a great question Lucy, one that comes up from time to time. As I have heard Erict say in the past, it is up to the individual to decide how they will use the forum. What is helpful for one, may not be helpful for another. I found one of Kiki's old posts that addresses this very well, it was a response to a question by Phil.

by kiki » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:27 pm

Phil wrote:
Would you like to continue to reflect on the mountain of wordage, teachings, and so on being generated by teachers, students, posters etc?


As for "teachers", I think it is largely out of compassion for those who continue to struggle to "see simply" and "simply see." By saying essentially the same thing from many angles the "student" may finally realize the simplicity of it all and just relax and drop into the natural state. Who is to say what "profound" thought/phrase will be the trigger mechanism for a particular person?

That being said, there is a definite enlivening of presence when writing about it. When one is very still and present certain words and phrases seem to "fit" more closely when attempting to describe it, and it becomes "fun"/challenging to give voice to the experience. Hence, more words, more teaching, more pointers.

As for "students"/posters, there is a camaraderie that develops when journeying with those with similar interests. This particular interest, awakening, seems to be particularly inviting because it is so life-affirming, and "life" is what we are! It's like looking into a mirror - most people like to sneak a glance at themselves when passing a mirror. Similarly, consciousness/You likes to "see itself" as it is reflected in apparent "others", and a good way to do that is to post and respond.

kiki

Taken from original topic titled Unlock Reality
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 2756#p2756
I especially liked these portions, and feel they are worth repeating: "That being said, there is a definite enlivening of presence when writing about it. When one is very still and present certain words and phrases seem to "fit" more closely when attempting to describe it, and it becomes "fun"/challenging to give voice to the experience." And:
"most people like to sneak a glance at themselves when passing a mirror. Similarly, consciousness/You likes to "see itself" as it is reflected in apparent "others", and a good way to do that is to post and respond."

It's all part of the journey of awakening, the egoic involvement, the so called mistakes, the stupid things we do and say, it all comes from the same source. As HermitLoon likes to say, every aspect of the human experience is sacred.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

Juniper22
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Juniper22 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:10 am

Have to say I love this forum and fair play to those who set it up in the first place. The internet is such a great tool... we have the opportunity today to receive information and chat with people online which nobody could have envisaged 15 - 20 years ago.

It`s an important point you raise though Lucy. Reminds me of the story of the zen buddhist monk who sought enlightenment and had accumulated a vast library of books. One day he became fully realized and burnt all his books.

We can get too attached to forums/books and ideals if we`re not careful. Most things are blessings and traps at the same time. For example friends can become enemies (and vice-versa), a good car can help get us places quicker... and yet become our tomb etc.

I feel we should continually evaluate what we want, and why we`re here in the first place. We can become entrapped or liberated by our own situations - It`s really up to us individually.
"Don`t think of goodness; don`t think of evil; at this instant, what is your original face?" Hui Neng

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:32 am

This forum is satsang in word form.

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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:08 pm

lucy wrote:I don't mean this as a criticism of this site at all. I am very thankful to Eric and Heidi for providing us an opportunity to discuss ET and his teachings. I must say though, as far as awakening goes, I wonder how useful this site is. There are a lot of good resources provided here, but outside of that, I wonder if all this mind activity that is generated here takes on further into the mind and hence further away from the truth.
Wow, after over 2000 posts of encouragement and pointers, spread over 3 years, I would hate to think that I was the only one to regain any clarity out of this forum :shock:

Even if that were true, would it have been a waste?

Your question is a fair one however, and I think is some cases the ego does prevail in using the medium of this forum as fuel for new and improved identity. But that is generally the case. Some see the light, others only their own reflection in a new set of clothes.

WW

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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Onceler » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:44 pm

lucy wrote:I don't mean this as a criticism of this site at all. I am very thankful to Eric and Heidi for providing us an opportunity to discuss ET and his teachings. I must say though, as far as awakening goes, I wonder how useful this site is. There are a lot of good resources provided here, but outside of that, I wonder if all this mind activity that is generated here takes on further into the mind and hence further away from the truth.
Yes and no....
Be present, be pleasant.

samadhi
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by samadhi » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:40 pm

Yes and No + 1!

I have to carefully sift through what's 'useful' and what's 'not useful' to me in this forum. There are a number of topics that are simply MENTAL NOISE. It goes way too far sometimes, opinions being fiercely exchanged, little things being dissected and debated and it draws me out of presence, particularly as a lot of that kind of stuff is super-charged ego bait. Sometimes it's easy to get pulled in 'that poster said WHAT? Geez, I gotta step in there and sort that out.' I try to avoid that now - it's not helpful to me.

Where the forum does help is that is provides a place to share experiences, guidance and tips that might help us in our own awakening. It also provides a sense of community, because many of us many don't have many friends in the 'real world' who understand all this 'spiritual stuff'. That can be nice.

But generally, I'm guarded. It's easy for me to lose presence and zone out when browsing the net, so I don't spend excessive time online.

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RCharles
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by RCharles » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:16 am

Hi Lucy et al,

I have to be careful how much I post and how many words I use because sometimes my posts feed my ego. But the posts of others are valuable beyond measure in keeping me pointed in the right direction.

This forum has helped me maintain and build enthusiasm for Tolle's teachings and has also introduced me to others, including Katie, Gangaji, Father DeMello, Adyashanti, Greg Larsen, and Eric Putkonen.

Yes, there's plenty here to feed the ego, but more to feed the spirit. I am very grateful to all of us as we help each other on the Way.

Charles
"They are all...perfect..." --Ken Watanabe, dying scene in the movie The Last Samurai

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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by karmarider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:05 am

At the beginning of the journey there is a drive to accumulate information. In that way the forum--like Tolle's books and satsangs and other teachings--can be helpful. When the effort of accumulation is given up, then it is not helpful, nor an obstacle.

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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:38 am

If one person is moved one micron closer to awakening, it's all worthwhile. The worst mindchatter here is far better, for example, than virtually anything on television, for awakening.

I had a very remarkable kensho in early February, 2008 and stumbled across this forum in deep need. The moderators were hugely helpful to me. I have tried to return that favor.

And your posts, lucy, are special and not mind chatter. Words are what they are - some are wonderful.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by HermitLoon » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:12 pm

"i" visit here because of a personality that seems to have a great curiosity - the urge to explore (without bias or criticism) all aspects of this Human Experience (in general that is what "i" use the internet for).
"It's all good"! :D

Peace
Peace

sevenworlds
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by sevenworlds » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:03 pm

I know what you're saying Lucy. I don't think this site is any more helpful in awakening than anything else. At the end of the day it's just a place full of words like plenty of other places on the internet. If something real and profound happens to someone reading any of the posts here, that person was somehow ready, and drawing a connection between them coming here and awakening becomes irrelevant.

If we know it's only another place full of words and we don't have any further expectations, it's alright. Those who are looking for peace and quiet and find it disturbed here would be better sitting out in the park under a tree or something because why else would you come on a forum unless you wanted to read or write?

lucy
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by lucy » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:03 pm

Thank you for all your great posts. I have found the ego to be very stategic and clever. Hijacking the desire for awakening is porbably one of its most subtle tricks. I have also found that in my experience, the final leg of the apparent journey had to be made alone, no books, no tapes, no seminars. Space has to be there for the Truth to be seen, if that Space is cluttered with ideas, pointers, expectations, opinons, it will not be seen..the accumulation of signposts obscures the Truth. I guess the question is: does the ego have a secret stash of signposts that are getting in the way?

sevenworlds
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Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by sevenworlds » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:10 am

There is only one direct 'moment' of seeing. That cannot be predicted or reached by any means. It is not related to anything. It just happens. When that 'moment' is being explained at a later date, it will often seem to the listener that this or that caused it because they will translate it in terms of time. So N. Maharaj will say he just obeyed his guru and then others hearing that will try and imitate. Someone else will mention yoga, drugs, silence, this technique or that technique. Some of these things have passed through folklore and become stronger in the mind than others. The two big ones are probably silence and space. The true silence and space is always there. Doesn't matter if the tv is blaring or you're in a crowded city centre or reading this forum.

The mistake is to believe these things come before. People try and create the silence, the space, the meditation, all these things, to reach that 'moment of seeing'. What they don't realise is that these things come automatically afterwards. That 'moment of seeing' allows an intelligence that was blocked before a way in to express. Thought will still put up a fight for a while but overall that intelligence will be the guide from then on. Meditation is then available at all times, whatever you're doing. That intelligence will bring the right pointers at the right time to help remove the debris of thought left in the aftermath of the 'moment of seeing'. You will know when you need to get away from it all and when you need to be in the thick of it. Both are exactly the same, it's just getting the balance right that appears to be tricky.

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