Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:34 am

sevenworlds wrote:There is only one direct 'moment' of seeing. That cannot be predicted or reached by any means. It is not related to anything. It just happens. When that 'moment' is being explained at a later date, it will often seem to the listener that this or that caused it because they will translate it in terms of time. So N. Maharaj will say he just obeyed his guru and then others hearing that will try and imitate. Someone else will mention yoga, drugs, silence, this technique or that technique. Some of these things have passed through folklore and become stronger in the mind than others. The two big ones are probably silence and space. The true silence and space is always there. Doesn't matter if the tv is blaring or you're in a crowded city centre or reading this forum.

The mistake is to believe these things come before. People try and create the silence, the space, the meditation, all these things, to reach that 'moment of seeing'. What they don't realise is that these things come automatically afterwards. That 'moment of seeing' allows an intelligence that was blocked before a way in to express. Thought will still put up a fight for a while but overall that intelligence will be the guide from then on. Meditation is then available at all times, whatever you're doing. That intelligence will bring the right pointers at the right time to help remove the debris of thought left in the aftermath of the 'moment of seeing'. You will know when you need to get away from it all and when you need to be in the thick of it. Both are exactly the same, it's just getting the balance right that appears to be tricky.
Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.....One will not give it up after one tastes the real thing once. However practicing without tasting the real thing once can sometimes be very futile. Beliefs are very harmful in this way.

tod
Posts: 612
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by tod » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:07 pm

sevenworlds wrote:There is only one direct 'moment' of seeing. That cannot be predicted or reached by any means. It is not related to anything. It just happens. When that 'moment' is being explained at a later date, it will often seem to the listener that this or that caused it because they will translate it in terms of time. So N. Maharaj will say he just obeyed his guru and then others hearing that will try and imitate. Someone else will mention yoga, drugs, silence, this technique or that technique. Some of these things have passed through folklore and become stronger in the mind than others. The two big ones are probably silence and space. The true silence and space is always there. Doesn't matter if the tv is blaring or you're in a crowded city centre or reading this forum.

The mistake is to believe these things come before. People try and create the silence, the space, the meditation, all these things, to reach that 'moment of seeing'. What they don't realise is that these things come automatically afterwards. That 'moment of seeing' allows an intelligence that was blocked before a way in to express. Thought will still put up a fight for a while but overall that intelligence will be the guide from then on. Meditation is then available at all times, whatever you're doing. That intelligence will bring the right pointers at the right time to help remove the debris of thought left in the aftermath of the 'moment of seeing'. You will know when you need to get away from it all and when you need to be in the thick of it. Both are exactly the same, it's just getting the balance right that appears to be tricky.
Marvelous post 7w. Thank you.

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by lucy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:51 am

sevenworlds wrote:Some of these things have passed through folklore and become stronger in the mind than others. The two big ones are probably silence and space.
Probably, but it's not easy to name that which cannot be named.
sevenworlds wrote:The true silence and space is always there. Doesn't matter if the tv is blaring or you're in a crowded city centre or reading this forum.
I agree, but this is only realized afterwards.

User avatar
eagle2phoenix
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:45 pm
Location: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
Contact:

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by eagle2phoenix » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:08 am

Hello! Are we asking too many questions, questioning too many things, going too far and too deep about awakening? Why not just go back to basics like being empty? Are we trying to get too intellectual here?
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:51 am

eagle2phoenix wrote:Hello! Are we asking too many questions, questioning too many things, going too far and too deep about awakening? Why not just go back to basics like being empty? Are we trying to get too intellectual here?
Some mind needs to be totally satisfied intellectually before it goes silent and mends its own business in the background :twisted:

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6368
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:56 am

Good point, Tony.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by sevenworlds » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:09 pm

lucy wrote:I agree, but this is only realized afterwards.
Yes. So what are you going to do beforehand? You have to use thought to try and create space and silence. I'm not against anyone doing these things but at best they are only putting themselves in an altered state. I see no difference between meditation and drugs. When Bob Marley encouraged people to smoke the herb, it was a portal he was offering, no different to any of Eckhart's portals. The mind likes to differentiate between them because it takes the position drugs = bad, sitting in silence = good. When we give up using the mind to try and manipulate this, then it is there.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:45 pm

sevenworlds wrote:
lucy wrote:I agree, but this is only realized afterwards.
Yes. So what are you going to do beforehand? You have to use thought to try and create space and silence. I'm not against anyone doing these things but at best they are only putting themselves in an altered state. I see no difference between meditation and drugs. When Bob Marley encouraged people to smoke the herb, it was a portal he was offering, no different to any of Eckhart's portals. The mind likes to differentiate between them because it takes the position drugs = bad, sitting in silence = good. When we give up using the mind to try and manipulate this, then it is there.
Drug induced realization is pseudo. My friend, you have not experimented enough with other portals. You are unable to realize the difference. There is no short-cut in personal consciousness evolution. In the class of Life, one repeats the same lesson in different forms until the lesson is mastered. This is very unlike the schooling system most of us have gone through in the society.

When others tell you the portals offered by ET are different from the one offered by BM, they are speaking from their own experiences.

Incidentally, impatience is not of the mind. It is from one's emotion. You are in the classic battle of mind vs. emotion. Apparently, your emotion has got the upper hand right now, or you are too subject to outside disturbances.

In Taoist Tradition, the mind and emotion are likened to a out-door pond. The waves in the pond is considered as emotional disturbances. We all know our emotion is very often subject to outside conditions. When there is high wind, there will be a lot of waves in the pond. As a result, mud from the bottom may be stirred up, and the pond becomes muddy. What one sees in a muddy wavy pond? Nothing but waves and muddiness. Who wants to look at a pond in howling wind?

A calm and clear pond represents a harmonious functioning mind and emotion. In such pond, one can peacefully see everything in the pond.

In your case, you have been telling us, all you see is muddy muddy and muddiness.

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:32 am

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Drug induced realization is pseudo. My friend, you have not experimented enough with other portals.
How can you experiment with portals? They are obviously not doing their job if you are experimenting with them. If they were, 'you' would be finished and there would be no need to try others.
Tony-S-Ma wrote:When others tell you the portals offered by ET are different from the one offered by BM, they are speaking from their own experiences.
How do you know someone who has taken drugs has not had similar experiences just because you didn't? I'm not encouraging anyone to take drugs. I'm highlighting how the portal is not important. Anything could be a portal. Music could be. If you are into music enough, you can have similar experiences to the portals spiritual teachers are advocating. It is unique for each individual. That means you have to accept drugs, music, sex, whatever... will do the same job for some people as the cliched spiritual ones. Instead, you want to imitate the spiritual teachers and techniques because of sentimentality and culture's spiritual brainwashing. That is what stops you from being yourself.

Anyway, I can't say anymore. I'm going to call it a day there.

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by lucy » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:12 am

Sevenworlds wrote:Yes. So what are you going to do beforehand? You have to use thought to try and create space and silence
In my experience, you can't do anything to bring it about. The mind is like a barking dog on a chain, its instinct is to go after anything that passes by.

karmarider
Posts: 2141
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by karmarider » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:22 am

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Drug induced realization is pseudo...
I've smoked weed before awakening experience, and after. The drug experience is not the same as awakening, but I would say that it was marginally helpful in that there is experience of a different state.

I recall Tolle saying he smoked weed, and he said it was not the same as awakening.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:31 am

sevenworlds wrote:
Tony-S-Ma wrote:Drug induced realization is pseudo. My friend, you have not experimented enough with other portals.
How can you experiment with portals? They are obviously not doing their job if you are experimenting with them. If they were, 'you' would be finished and there would be no need to try others.
Tony-S-Ma wrote:When others tell you the portals offered by ET are different from the one offered by BM, they are speaking from their own experiences.
How do you know someone who has taken drugs has not had similar experiences just because you didn't? I'm not encouraging anyone to take drugs. I'm highlighting how the portal is not important. Anything could be a portal. Music could be. If you are into music enough, you can have similar experiences to the portals spiritual teachers are advocating. It is unique for each individual. That means you have to accept drugs, music, sex, whatever... will do the same job for some people as the cliched spiritual ones. Instead, you want to imitate the spiritual teachers and techniques because of sentimentality and culture's spiritual brainwashing. That is what stops you from being yourself.

Anyway, I can't say anymore. I'm going to call it a day there.
Perhaps, we have misunderstood each other. ET is teaching awakening/enlightenment, not portals to altered states of consciousness. Awakening experiences may be accompanied by altered states of consciousness; however, alternated states of consciousness may not be awakening experiences. I agree with you that there are many portals to altered states of consciousness. A spiritual seeker is not after portals to altered states of consciousness. S/he is after the portals to What s/he is. Such portals can open in normal consciousness as well as in altered state of consciousness.

I experienced altered states of consciousness naturally before puberty. I was very afraid them then. Perhaps, the fear eventually blocked such experiences from happening afterward. Now, I am no longer afraid, altered states of consciousness do occasionally come and go without the control of my mind.

Incidentally, I took a lot of medications to control the altered states of consciousness when I was young. I hated taking medication of any kind after I became an adult. My best cure for all my illness (physical or mental) is sleeping.

Confusing altered states of consciousness with awakening experiences is a common error in spiritual seeking.

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:27 pm

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Confusing altered states of consciousness with awakening experiences is a common error in spiritual seeking.
If the portal/teaching has not put an end to 'you' then it is not an awakening but an altered state of consciousness you've experienced.

User avatar
eagle2phoenix
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:45 pm
Location: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
Contact:

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by eagle2phoenix » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:47 am

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Some mind needs to be totally satisfied intellectually before it goes silent and mends its own business in the background :twisted:
Then use it for something useful like Einstein or Stephen Hawking. Or write a book about how twisted life is. This forum is going out of synthesis with long conversations about what is and what is not.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

User avatar
Eggman1
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: Is this site another way for the ego to avoid awakening?

Post by Eggman1 » Fri May 01, 2009 2:47 pm

As a new member as of yesterday (4/30) I can offer my own experience on this site. After finding it and reading the original "Awakening" post, which I found to be so succinct and powerful (and most of the responses, especially HermitLoon, wow) it blew a whole lot of dust and debris off of me and I spent the rest of the day and evening in a state of relative bliss. I have not felt like that since I had what I refer to as my epiphany at the end of 2006.

So my point is I believe that reading about other peoples experiences and views will definitely help me, it already has after only fifteen minutes on this site.

Regards,

Gregg
Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves -
regret for the past and fear of the future.
-- Fulton Oursler

Post Reply