awakening is simple and easy

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karmarider
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awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:42 am

I wrote a book and run a website on awakening; for two reasons, because there is a simple and easy way for people to release depression and anxiety, and because awakening is simple and easy. It's interesting to hear intellectual arguments about awakening. Awakening, fortunately has nothing to do with any intellectual argument, even if it comes from a person who believes he is "advanced." Perhaps this why the Buddha warned not to believe anything anyone says, until it is experience.

My experience with depression and anxiety was not easy. But releasing the anxiety, once I found a natural method, was easy. And my awakening experiences have been effortless and easy. In the beginning there was some effort, but "I" do absolutely nothing except get out of the way. Meditation is fine--not required. Teachers are fine--also not required. Intellectualism is an obstacle. A 'spiritualized' ego is an obstacle. There is nothing to it. It's about letting go and remaining aware/present. Look at things that take you out of presence. Find a release technique that resonates with you. Some effort may be required in the beginning, but then it is effortless.

It's important to say this, because looking around at this site, and other resources, one might get the idea that there is something accomplished or highly intellectual or difficult or something where you need a lot of guidance. The ability to string words together in a complicated argument does not belie the depth of awakening. Remain present and 'you' will be your own guide.

I also encourage people to start awakening because there is a tidal wave of awakening around the globe. This is the age of consciousness. Change has already started. Awaken already because it is just the beginning!

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by HermitLoon » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:06 am

:D
Peace

Juniper22
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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by Juniper22 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:56 am

Great OP Karmarider, very insightful. Nice site too, keep up the good work!
"Don`t think of goodness; don`t think of evil; at this instant, what is your original face?" Hui Neng

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:08 pm

Juniper22 wrote:Great OP Karmarider, very insightful. Nice site too, keep up the good work!
Thanks!

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eputkonen
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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by eputkonen » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:30 pm

Yes, awakening is simple...but that is what makes it difficult. The gateless gate.
Mainly because people try to make it complex and difficult...or think they really need to work hard to Awaken. And other reasons.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by Sighclone » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:40 pm

I disagree. Broad statements like "awakening is simple and easy" is not the experience of most people. Therefore it is false. Breathing is simple and easy. So it eating. So is peeing. Moreover, the following two paragraphs in that post are not sufficient to help people wake up (that easy-to-do thing), either. If they were, or are, lets get a fund together and print those words on billboards everywhere.

If awakening were simple and easy, Eckhart would not have sold six million books. He would not have written one.

The final step may be easy. The first 10,000 steps may be meaningless, but perhaps necessary. I prefer this comment by Peter Fenner in "The Sacred Mirror"
One of the most delightful paradoxes is that at the end of the nondual path we relize that we haven't travelled any distance -- that no path has been traversed and that we haven't attained "anything." But we also realize that if we hadn't believed that there was a path and made the effort we have made, we wouldn't have arrived at the point we are at. Even though we realize that our struggle and commitment has been pointless, in the absence of this effort we would still be drifting in the illusion that there actually is somewhere to go and something to achieve. Without doing what we didn't need to do, we wouldn't realize that we didn't need to do it.
I am a person with a great big accomplished mind. Big deal. It has been a hindrance for awakening. So awakening has not been easy for me. In fact, it's been very granular, with thousands of hours of meditation and other spiritual practices. I am far from alone. The bold announcement that it is easy can easily be seen as an egoic-based insult to the millions of people who haven't stumbled across that secret step which makes it so "easy." It is statements like that which cause uproar in the minds and hearts of people like Dennis Waite who create the label "neo-Advaitist" and go on the attack. I guess I'm one of them.

I'd be perfectly happy with the lesser statement: "For some, awakening is simple and easy."

On your website, you equivocate (bolding is mine):
The important thing about Awakening is that it is a continuing process and it is available to all of us. It is not easy and it is not difficult; it is only delicate. It is slippery, only because we complicate the simplicity of it by throwing in concepts and expectations and spirituality and knowledge and dogma.
Now, that statement is better - it emphasizes the paradox.


Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:58 pm

Sighclone wrote:I disagree. Broad statements like "awakening is simple and easy" is not the experience of most people. Therefore it is false. Breathing is simple and easy. So it eating. So is peeing. Moreover, the following two paragraphs in that post are not sufficient to help people wake up (that easy-to-do thing), either. If they were, or are, lets get a fund together and print those words on billboards everywhere.
Awakening is natural, simple and easy. The context of the post was that many of the resources available today convey that awakening is difficult, accomplished, or requires esoteric knowledge. This is not true. "Easy" is a comparative word. If we're used to hitting nails with a rock, it is legitimate to say that hitting a nail with a hammer is easy.

Many people's experience so far has not been easy. Perhaps that is because it is presented in complicated ways.
Sighclone wrote: If awakening were simple and easy, Eckhart would not have sold six million books. He would not have written one.
When people believed the earth was flat, it made sense for Galileo, Copernicus and Kepler to point out the fallacy. It's obvious to us today and nobody would read a book that claims the earth is not flat (Friedman notwithstanding :) ). Most people in world are deluded, so it made sense for Eckhart Tolle and many others to point this out. Perhaps in a few generations, the message will be obvious and not needed.
Sighclone wrote:...The bold announcement that it is easy can easily be seen as an egoic-based insult to the millions of people who haven't stumbled across that secret step which makes it so "easy."
Of course. I spent years fighting anxiety and depression, with therapy and medications and yoga and exercise and knowledge and anything I saw the least bit of hope in. When I discovered a natural, simple, and easy way to release anxiety, my ego didn't like it. It was invested in effort. I just worked with someone, a much younger person, who has been able to release anxiety and insomnia in the same way. Because my journey through anxiety wasn't easy doesn't mean it can't be be for others. People who have spent years meditating will react if someone makes the statement that meditation is not necessary for awakening. People who spent years studying Advaita may react when Eckhart makes his frequent statement that knowledge is not necessary.

There is no secret. A combination of releasing and awareness can get us into a flow that's natural, easy, and simple. The rest happens on its own, effortlessly. When the big-bang awakening event happens, if there is indeed such a thing, is not important, because the benefits are immediate, and experience deepens on its own, effortlessly. Effortless = easy. As I was clear in the original post, there may be some effort in the beginning.
Sighclone wrote: It is statements like that which cause uproar in the minds and hearts of people like Dennis Waite who create the label "neo-Advaitist" and go on the attack. I guess I'm one of them.
Ok.
Sighclone wrote: I'd be perfectly happy with the lesser statement: "For some, awakening is simple and easy."
In strict usage of language, you are correct. When you said breathing was easy, you said breathing was easy, you didn't say breathing was easy except for the people who have asthma, black lung, lung cancer, and so on. When Eckhart says anyone can awaken, he doesn't qualify it with exceptions. The point I was making and am making is that many of resources available today convey the idea that there is something difficult or accomplished about awakening. I made that point by using a "bold" statement without qualification. This is the way we use language.
Sighclone wrote: On your website, you equivocate (bolding is mine):
The important thing about Awakening is that it is a continuing process and it is available to all of us. It is not easy and it is not difficult; it is only delicate. It is slippery, only because we complicate the simplicity of it by throwing in concepts and expectations and spirituality and knowledge and dogma.
Now, that statement is better - it emphasizes the paradox.
You are reacting to "Awakening is easy" because that is not most people's experience and it is not your experience. "Easy" can only be comparative word. My experience is that it can be easy. I know that releasing can be easy because that is my experience; and I've worked with others as well; and there is at least anecdotal evidence for Sedona, EFT and others. It's much, much easier than any other method I've tried. It's as easy as opening a fisted hand. It's legitimate to characterize it as easy. There is some effort to getting into a natural flow, but once in the flow, it is effortless. It did not require any spirituality or paradigms or knowledge, years of meditation, or deconstructing beliefs and ego, and so on.

Eckhart gets a lot of credit for pointing to Truth in very simple language. I'll always be thankful to Eckhart, but I also know that his personal experience does not include working at awakening. I don't look to him for that. I think Eckhart's message can be simplified much further. Leonard Jacobson says it shouldn't take more than a year to awaken. Now that is a bold statement, and just because that hasn't been common experience so far, doesn't make it false. Egos which are invested in effort will rebel. Egos which have not may be inclined to hear Leonard Jacobson. Arjuna Ardagh's message is also very simple and ordinary, and he says the only reason we don't awaken instantly is because of clinging to concepts. And this is what I say in the paragraph you quoted: it is only delicate because we mix it up with concepts.

The common awakening experience has been difficult. One can certainly make the assumption that this will always be the case. Or one can see that that is only an assumption.

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:19 pm

eputkonen wrote:Yes, awakening is simple...but that is what makes it difficult. The gateless gate.
Mainly because people try to make it complex and difficult...or think they really need to work hard to Awaken. And other reasons.
What other reasons? I ask because I'm making a list of possible obstacles and how to get past them.

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:00 am

karmarider -

Thanks for not over-reacting to my rebuttal. You have a fine website, well-produced, with useful content. Anything you or anyone else can do to make this event "easy" for the largest number of people is a good thing. When you say
releasing can be easy
, I agree, but that is different from awakening. A good meditation technique can allow or facilitate 'releasing', quickly. Adya's path was tortuous and took 15 years. Leonard Jacobsen had a breakthrough after years of grief. kiki and I pounded away with our mantras for decades.

I think different people awaken at different paces depending on a variety of things. Also, Adya and others (Gary Weber, Ken Wilber, Loch Kelly) all agree that the relativistic personality which remains might have a few habits to re-arrange. And life after awakening, both spiritual and samsaric continues to evolve. Nisargadatta chanted for hours (between cigarettes - :) ).

Happy to have you as a member, kr.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:29 am

Hey Andy,

I appreciate your comments and experience, Releasing is not the same as awakening but it is a great complement--it can take the sting and effort out of the process. Yes, everyone's journey is different. And yes, awakening is just the beginning; there are remnants of conditioning to deal with. You provide a great platform for discourse and I'm happy to be part of it!

Namaste,
k

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by eagle2phoenix » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:19 am

I kind of agree with karmarider. I have become constantly aware of myself, of my thoughts, of how I act and react. When I see myself going into a situation, I now just feel it and move on to something else. Again, that is why I do simple things like gardening. In gardening, I put my attention to what I am doing, even seeing the beauty of worms and apologizing to them when I accidentally cut them digging the soil. In those moments, there is nothing positive or negative. I am just doing and being. Simple as that.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by eputkonen » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:01 pm

karmarider wrote:
eputkonen wrote:Yes, awakening is simple...but that is what makes it difficult. The gateless gate.
Mainly because people try to make it complex and difficult...or think they really need to work hard to Awaken. And other reasons.
What other reasons? I ask because I'm making a list of possible obstacles and how to get past them.
Basically, it is our own thoughts, beliefs, and concepts. It all comes down to misunderstandings and ignorance.
Ultimately, the thought, belief, and concept that there is an obstacle to get past is the obstacle...the idea of being trapped/constrainted and needing liberation is the obstacle to realizing we could never be trapped or constrained.

"possible obstacles and how to get past them"

Ultimately, it is a mental fiction trying to get out of a mentally created hole that the mental fiction itself dug and then fell into.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by weopposedeception » Fri May 01, 2009 2:31 am

Nice website and thanks for sharing your personal experiences. Myself, I'm not picking up any indicators of a "tidal wave" of enlightening in this world. I see it heading in the opposite direction to tell the truth. For the vast majority of people, anyway.

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Fri May 01, 2009 7:22 am

eputkonen wrote:...

"possible obstacles and how to get past them"

Ultimately, it is a mental fiction trying to get out of a mentally created hole that the mental fiction itself dug and then fell into.
Yes the obstacles themselves are mental fiction, and so is the idea of enlightenment. But something happens to recognizes all of this. What is that something?

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Re: awakening is simple and easy

Post by karmarider » Fri May 01, 2009 7:31 am

weopposedeception wrote:Nice website and thanks for sharing your personal experiences. Myself, I'm not picking up any indicators of a "tidal wave" of enlightening in this world. I see it heading in the opposite direction to tell the truth. For the vast majority of people, anyway.
Hey, weopposedeception, thanks. Arjuna Ardagh has a book called the "Transculent revolution" or something similar, and he points to many people awakening. I don't have any statistics to back it up. Perhaps there is hope in the hundredth monkey.

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